Bible reading plan--RESOURCE reading plan

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 1 2009 3:54 PM

MarthaJSmith:

I'd like to support you ... however, I find the current reading plan useless.

1) I object to the definition of Scripture being limited to the post 18th century definition of certain Western protestant groups

2) I object to the assumption of sequential reading

3) I object to the destruction of any hand-built reading plan by actual reading ... rather than invoking an instance of a template ...

4) I object to the lack of coordination with the lectionary [to which I also have a list of objections]

5) I object to having to have so many objections ...

 

But actually, I agree with you that the inclusion of non-Scriptural items in the reading plan has great value. I would very much like to have Logos support items such as Missio Dei (http://thebreviary.com/) or Volume 1 of Take Our Moments and Our Days: An Anabaptist Prayer Book etc.

And, yes, there are Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, Jewish, Celtic... similar material sitting on my book shelf. They are a very major source of Scripture in one's life for a significant number of customers/potential customers. ... And yes, I am having trouble convincing the forum software I don't need to be using italics.  It's not letting me turn it off when it was brought in by a copy and paste.

When I read the first two posts on this thread it seems both are pushing for expanded customizing features. The desired content may differ but we all would like to have the ability to apply this tool as we choose. If we gain this feature it would eliminate your objections #1, #2, #4 & #5?

Objection #3 is the tough one. I know you are not against templates per se. (I really like your forum post on a template for studying creeds.) There are fleeting moments where I wonder if I should turn off the computer and push aside all the wonderful "tools" at my disposal in favor of my "manual" system. But then I ask why can't we have BOTH?

The old argument "there are too many great books to waste time reading good books" doesn't seem to hold water anymore. Soon we will be able to search many at once gleaning the best of all of them. The exponential growth of the titles in the Libronix pipeline is staggering. I will have to raise the dowry on my 5 unmarried daughters to pay for my pre-pubs.

But the broader the umbrella we stand under, the more "useless" things we may find under there with us. You might not like the reading plan in it's current state, I might find paraphrases masquerading as translations to be of little value & George despises Reverse Interlinears. The people who buy Newman's writings won't buy Hayford's.

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Rob Suggs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 1 2009 4:54 PM

This kind of thread is inevitable, I feel. And will probably become only more prevalent. I've been reading newsgroups and forums for a number of years, and it's impossible to discuss the blandest of topics without nuclear war escalating. (Original sin, you know.) The written word loses the nuances of physical conversation, and for whatever reason, we all tend to take the most negative construction of remarks that we read. Sarcasm is as prevalent as oxygen in this world, and we learn to see it even where it is not. Discussing the Bible, of course, is a ticking time bomb in any setting. We're all going to need to build in some disclaimers that people are required to read before posting, including being quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger; counting others more important than ourselves; and, when we want to brand someone as a heretic, remembering Paul's exhortations on the gentleness with which we should handle things. We all need to recognize that Logos is a tool for anyone interested in studying the Bible, from the thousands of world denominations to those strictly interested in scholarship. We need to drop our weapons when we enter here, because there will never be anything close to uniformity of belief. Those who struggle with that will make themselves unhappy. The rest will benefit from viewpoints we're not usually exposed to--a good thing, in my opinion.

Even so, as I say, as time goes on, the flame wars will come. This subject is too precious to us to ever let us be casual in attitude. Even though we're people of the Book, we struggle to live by the grace it describes. It's always been that way, and always will be--even with Logos users.

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 1 2009 5:32 PM

Rob Suggs:

This kind of thread is inevitable, I feel. And will probably become only more prevalent. I've been reading newsgroups and forums for a number of years, and it's impossible to discuss the blandest of topics without nuclear war escalating. (Original sin, you know.) The written word loses the nuances of physical conversation, and for whatever reason, we all tend to take the most negative construction of remarks that we read. Sarcasm is as prevalent as oxygen in this world, and we learn to see it even where it is not. Discussing the Bible, of course, is a ticking time bomb in any setting. We're all going to need to build in some disclaimers that people are required to read before posting, including being quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger; counting others more important than ourselves; and, when we want to brand someone as a heretic, remembering Paul's exhortations on the gentleness with which we should handle things. We all need to recognize that Logos is a tool for anyone interested in studying the Bible, from the thousands of world denominations to those strictly interested in scholarship. We need to drop our weapons when we enter here, because there will never be anything close to uniformity of belief. Those who struggle with that will make themselves unhappy. The rest will benefit from viewpoints we're not usually exposed to--a good thing, in my opinion.

Even so, as I say, as time goes on, the flame wars will come. This subject is too precious to us to ever let us be casual in attitude. Even though we're people of the Book, we struggle to live by the grace it describes. It's always been that way, and always will be--even with Logos users.

Well Spoken, Rob!   *smile*

....   Mel

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 1 2009 7:03 PM

Rob Suggs:

This kind of thread is inevitable, I feel. And will probably become only more prevalent. I've been reading newsgroups and forums for a number of years, and it's impossible to discuss the blandest of topics without nuclear war escalating. (Original sin, you know.) The written word loses the nuances of physical conversation, and for whatever reason, we all tend to take the most negative construction of remarks that we read. Sarcasm is as prevalent as oxygen in this world, and we learn to see it even where it is not. Discussing the Bible, of course, is a ticking time bomb in any setting. We're all going to need to build in some disclaimers that people are required to read before posting, including being quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger; counting others more important than ourselves; and, when we want to brand someone as a heretic, remembering Paul's exhortations on the gentleness with which we should handle things. We all need to recognize that Logos is a tool for anyone interested in studying the Bible, from the thousands of world denominations to those strictly interested in scholarship. We need to drop our weapons when we enter here, because there will never be anything close to uniformity of belief. Those who struggle with that will make themselves unhappy. The rest will benefit from viewpoints we're not usually exposed to--a good thing, in my opinion.

Even so, as I say, as time goes on, the flame wars will come. This subject is too precious to us to ever let us be casual in attitude. Even though we're people of the Book, we struggle to live by the grace it describes. It's always been that way, and always will be--even with Logos users.

Rob

I agree with the spirit of your post, but remember that Paul himself was not always gentle with his readers, as a quick look at Galatians or the Corinthian epistles will reveal. Smile (that is a gentle smile, BTW)

Jack

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 1 2009 7:06 PM

Logos does have a reading plan for the apocrypha.

http://blog.logos.com/archives/2009/01/free_book_apocrypha_reading_plan.html

 

Ron

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Chris Ease | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 1 2009 7:09 PM

I like the idea of a resource reading planner.  If it's possible, I say do it.  If it's not possible, well I didn't have it before and can say I won't miss it.Yes

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 1 2009 7:33 PM

RonaldQuick:

Logos does have a reading plan for the apocrypha.

http://blog.logos.com/archives/2009/01/free_book_apocrypha_reading_plan.html

Ron

Ron

Thank you for the information.

Jack

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 1 2009 7:51 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Our plan is to support all versified texts next. (Versified books are more fine-grained and easier to divide up than regular books of prose broken by chapters.) Eventually we want to support reading plans for any content.

That's completely understandable to do versified first.

It would really be nifty to be able to add study guides (MacArthur) and other lesson style formats (Biblical School of Evangelism) on a reading schedule like attending class. Then all the homeschooling moms out there might let us buy more titles. ComputerRight HugPersonPersonPersonPersonPersonPerson

Would that require the introduction of a site license if one were allowing their kids to study on the computer?

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JR Woods | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 5 2009 11:15 AM

Martha,

Did you know that ST Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica is one pre pub? I have all five volumes of his work at home and I love it!

Wouldnt it be great to have a reading plan for the Summa?! I would LOVE that! Man. I have never had greater theological insight that after reading that work. Aquinas is an unbelievable theologan. I don't think there is a systematic theology in existence that doesnt quote him.

I hope you are as excited about it as I am! I order that as soon it came out on pre pub! Its under contract now and I am sitting on the edge of my seat!

blessings,

jW

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 5 2009 12:08 PM

Justin,

There are two other works by Thomas Aquinas in the pipeline.

Summa Contra Gentiles (4 Vols.) is on Pre-Pub.

Catena Aurea: Commentary on the Four Gospels (8 Vols.) is on Community Pricing.

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Jonathon David Riopel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 17 2009 7:41 PM

I was wondering if there was a time frame on this.  Or is it coming in the next version of the software?  Or will it be something one can download into their program?  Thanks?

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Jonathon David Riopel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 17 2009 7:43 PM

I was wondering if there was a time frame on this?  Or will it be in the next version of the software?  Or will it be something one can download?  THankyou for your hard work!

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2009 7:05 AM

JonathonDavidRiopel:

I was wondering if there was a time frame on this?  Or will it be in the next version of the software?  Or will it be something one can download?  THankyou for your hard work!

By "this" do you mean a resource reading plan?  If so we can only hope and lobby that such a creature will manifest itself Either in the current version of Logos or the next.  I've been wanting such a resource reading ability every since I acquired the early church fathers. (Not to mention the journals!)

If by "this" you mean Aquinas' works, they are available:

Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas, English Only (22 Vols.)

Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas, English and Latin Bundle (30 Vols.)

Aquinas on Doctrine: A Critical Introduction [DOWNLOAD]

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2009 12:31 PM

Matthew C Jones:
If we gain this feature it would eliminate your objections #1, #2, #4 & #5?

Objection #3 is the tough one. I know you are not against templates per se. (I really like your forum post on a template for studying creeds.) There are fleeting moments where I wonder if I should turn off the computer and push aside all the wonderful "tools" at my disposal in favor of my "manual" system. But then I ask why can't we have BOTH?

Yes, all my objections are easily solvable with additional feature.  What I was thinking of in objection 3 was an Orthodox plan that repeats monthly. I would like to be able to repeat it each month simply by giving it a new start date.  All this requires from Logos is that when one builds a custom plan, that plan is saved.  Each time you invoke that plan by giving it a start date, a copy of that plan is moved into the active reading plan process where the Logos software has you mark off items as read and shows was is to be read today.

Matthew C Jones:
But the broader the umbrella we stand under, the more "useless" things we may find under there with us.

I find the current reading plan useless for myself. As a computer nerd, I also find it based on poor analysis (professional opinion) for the following reasons:

1) Using Wikipedia numbers, the canon supported is less than the accepted canon for 1,654,000,000 Christians world wide i.e. about 79% of the Christians

2) The canon supported represents a common canon for less than 25% of church history

3) People using Logos are apt to be using reading plans for purposes in addition to personal Bible Study.

4) The current configuration does not easily accept a number of common readings plans - Zondervan, Chronological, International Standard Lesson readings etc. for which Logos users may wish to plan OR read

5) The current configuration does not link easily to reading cycles of the liturgical traditions - for example, the 2 year reading cycle of scripture in the Office of Readings [readings essentially continuous through a book, books not in order]

6) The current straight through configuration assumes a single sequence while the real world has multiple sequences - the most obvious being the Tanahk vs. "standard American Protestant"

7) I have no objection with people who need only its current functionality continuing to use it as they do now.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2009 12:34 PM

RonaldQuick:

Logos does have a reading plan for the apocrypha.

http://blog.logos.com/archives/2009/01/free_book_apocrypha_reading_plan.html

 

Yes, sort of ... note even Logos had to resort to a cludge to "create" one.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Debra Bouey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2009 6:49 AM

JustinWoods:

...I see people are quick to side here. ...

With all due respect, Justin, has it not occurred to you that perhaps when everyone commenting here did not see Martha's post as you did that perhaps there might be some merit in their subsequent comments? I would hope so.

It is quite interesting that you immediately label opinions of others who do not concur with yours as "taking sides". Perhaps they are merely calling it as they read Martha's post and haven't any intent of "taking sides"?

I have the inclination, to which I probably shouldn't indulge, to end on a "For crying out loud..." note for some peculiar reason.

Debra

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JR Woods | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2009 11:39 AM

Debra,

With due respect, we are light years beyond that thread. For you to dig up old skeletons and apply your opinion on a topic that has been dead for a while is impetuously unnecessary. Does that sound pushy? Maybe. I am just tired of dealing with the same issues that have been dead a while. Lets talk about something of substance, and I am whole heartedly into it. I understand that certain threads will cause a band wagon effect, that doesn't make them right. I am done with that issue and so was everyone else. Kindly drop it.

All I wanted to point out in this thread was to have a resource reading plan the same way we have a bible reading plan. Lets talk about that, which is why I formed this forum to start with. My favorite resource is St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica, which is finally in my library now, thank God, and I would love to have a software program to split it up over the next year. What resource would you like to have in a program like that? 

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2009 12:09 PM

JR Woods:
With due respect, we are light years beyond that thread. For you to dig up old skeletons and apply your opinion on a topic that has been dead for a while is impetuously unnecessary. Does that sound pushy? Maybe.

Yes, it does sound pushy.  Who are you to determine what opinions shall or shall not be brought forward?  You are certainly free to express your opinion, so please allow others the same privilege.

JR Woods:
which is why I formed this forum to start with.

You formed this forum?  Here all along I was under the impression that Logos formed the forum. 

JR Woods:
My favorite resource is St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica, which is finally in my library now, thank God, and I would love to have a software program to split it up over the next year. What resource would you like to have in a program like that? 

I can think of quite a few such as Barth's Church Dogmatics.  I suppose it wouldn't kill me to read Aquinas either.  After all, why else did I buy it?  Also one could do worse than to become familiar with the Church Fathers.  Calvin is probably a bit brief to spend an entire year reading -- especially since his Institute was the text for a course in Calvinism I took in college (one semester).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2009 2:52 PM

And I thought I had waited long enough to be able to respond to JR Wood's second post on this thread for the flames to be mere embers. My apologies for reawakening the thread.  Next time I'll wait for water to be thrown on the embers and the fire pit turned over with a shovel.

Note that in my original response to JR's original post I did agree that scheduling non-scriptural resources was a good idea.  My first choice would be scheduling the Catena of Aquinas parallel to the Gospels.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JR Woods | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2009 5:28 PM

listen George, this is getting rediculous with your drag-me-down posts.

Yes, I did create this, there's a link called, "create a new post" at the top left, thats what I did and you have determined to turn this in a rediculous direction. I started this post with wonderful intentions of sharing an idea for a product that I knew would be helpful. All I have asked is for this to be an enjoyable post. Nobody appointed you the post police, from now on, if you got a problem, I'll give you my number and we can sort it out over the phone. but quit bogging down my post with you trying to drag down my day with your tough guy routine. I put up with enough "tough guy" stuff from my unsaved family, no one needs it from you.

Don't waste more space with negativity. Call me with your negativity 417 569 4429 so I can douse it in person, you obviously have all day to react or you wouldn't be monitoring my every post like a police wire tap. If your trying to create fear, you have succeeded in creating quite the opposite my friend. I have faced monstors in the past far more dangerous than you, fluff comments like yours dont faze me.

Honestly, can we actually talk about the proposed post subject, RESOURCE READING PLAN. I would like to seek encouragement on this post. That's why I created it. If there's more about the RESOURCE READING PLAN, I would love to hear it. I love to bounce ideas.

 

 

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