ESV Study Bible Notes

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Posts 39
Brian Lopez | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Aug 8 2010 1:38 PM

I would like to buy the ESV Study Bible and I have the Bible Study version of Logos 4.

On the ESV Study Bible webpage, it states:

"Please Note: Unlike previous study Bible resources which do not include the Bible text, this ESV Study Bible is coupled with the full text of the ESV Bible. If you already have a copy of the ESV, you can purchase the ESV Study Bible Notes—without the Bible text."

Now, why would anyone who has Logos purchase the entire ESV Study Bible if every Logos package already has the ESV Bible which entails that people only need to get the ESV Study Bible notes, no?

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 1:48 PM

It's as it says, if you do not have base package with the ESV already included, you need to buy full thing. Of course people with any current base package should already have ESV in their library.

Bohuslav

Posts 39
Brian Lopez | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 1:59 PM

Right, but I did not know you could buy Logos resources without having a base package since all base packages all already have the ESV included. That's my point.

Posts 5619
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 2:28 PM

BrianLopez:

Right, but I did not know you could buy Logos resources without having a base package since all base packages all already have the ESV included. That's my point.

You can buy resources without a base package.  There are lots of ways:

  • Anyone can download the software and buy an individual book. 
  • Third party boxed products that use Libronix don't include the ESV. 
  • Older base packages (pre-Logos4) also didn't include the ESV, but the upgrade to Logos 4 doesn't require upgrading to a Logos4 base package.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 19190
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 2:37 PM

You don't have to have a base package in order to buy and use Logos resources. The engine is free and can be downloaded independently. Of course it wouldn't do much with NO resources but there are some free resources, including Logos's own translation, the Lexham English Bible. And there are some other "starter" packages with a bunch of resources in them that were originally made for Libronix (Logos 3), but you can buy them and use them in Logos 4. For example, NAS Electronic Bible Library, Preacher's Essential Library, Concordia Electronic Theological Library, Collegeville Catholic Reference Library, R.C. Sproul Digital Library, Jon Courson Essential Bible Study Library, and similar starter libraries with the works of other authors

So yes, it is quite possible to build up a Logos library without buying any of the current Logos 4 "base packages." You won't have access to some of the new Logos 4 features, though, the ones that require the special databases they built up for it, e.g., Biblical People/Places/Things, etc. Those databases come only with the new base packages.

Posts 39
Brian Lopez | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 2:39 PM

Thank you all. I had no idea the engine could be downloaded for free and add free resources. I'll look into it.

Smile

Posts 39
Brian Lopez | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 2:47 PM

Where is the free engine?

 

Posts 5619
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 2:55 PM

BrianLopez:

Where is the free engine?

 

It's the same link you use to install Logos4 when you buy a package:

http://downloads.logos.com/LBS4/Installer/Logos4Setup.exe

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 19190
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 3:29 PM

BrianLopez:

Thank you all. I had no idea the engine could be downloaded for free and add free resources. I'll look into it.

Smile

I think you'll not really get a full experience of Logos with just a freebie starter package but you can try it. There aren't many resources that are free, and the ones they've got are not the most useful, except the one Bible (LEB) and the abridged BDB (Hebrew lexicon). But do let us know what you think after trying to load up as many free resources as you can find access to. And ask here on the forums if you've got questions on how to use it.

And watch some of the tutorial videos (here and here) before you get frustrated at not being able to do anything in Logos with your minimal free starter package. Some of the videos might make you realize the limitations of not having a base package, as some of the features won't work for you.

Once you get a little taste of What Logos is like, the best deal on other resources is through the base packages. They're able to combine LOTS of stuff from publishers at a great discount this way. Check out the "Features and Databases" section of http://logos.com/comparison to see what you'll be missing out on without a base package (and the colored dots show which base packages each of these features/databases is included in).

Posts 39
Brian Lopez | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 3:36 PM

Todd Phillips:

It's the same link you use to install Logos4 when you buy a package:

http://downloads.logos.com/LBS4/Installer/Logos4Setup.exe

Thanks!

 

Posts 39
Brian Lopez | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 3:38 PM

Rosie Perera:

I think you'll not really get a full experience of Logos with just a freebie starter package but you can try it. There aren't many resources that are free, and the ones they've got are not the most useful, except the one Bible (LEB) and the abridged BDB (Hebrew lexicon). But do let us know what you think after trying to load up as many free resources as you can find access to. And ask here on the forums if you've got questions on how to use it.

And watch some of the tutorial videos (here and here) before you get frustrated at not being able to do anything in Logos with your minimal free starter package. Some of the videos might make you realize the limitations of not having a base package, as some of the features won't work for you.

Once you get a little taste of What Logos is like, the best deal on other resources is through the base packages. They're able to combine LOTS of stuff from publishers at a great discount this way. Check out the "Features and Databases" section of http://logos.com/comparison to see what you'll be missing out on without a base package (and the colored dots show which base packages each of these features/databases is included in).

Thank you, but I already have Logos 4 Bible Study base package. I was only inquiring as to the reason why the ESV notes should be purchased separately if all base packages already have the ESV, but you guys answered my inquiry.

Im asking for the free download of the engine in case in a friend of mine would like to try it.

Posts 5619
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2010 6:33 PM

BrianLopez:
Im asking for the free download of the engine in case in a friend of mine would like to try it.

Yeah.  Logos doesn't advertise it, because without resources, one can't really understand the power of Logos.  That's why they push people to buy a package and give them a money-back guarantee--which is what I would recommend as well.  The automated guides and search capabilities are really useless when you only have 2 or 3 resources.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 286
Dr. Charles A. Wootten | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 6:23 AM

I pulled my print ESV off the shelf to take to church this past Sunday as a result of this discussion on this forum and was glancing through the notes in James and 1st Peter. I was so stunned by a similar statement, bordering on heresy, in both places that I almost dropped the ESV in the floor. The notes indicate that both James and Peter are writing to the "new Israel that has become the church" (my paraphrase) in writing to the Dispersion. While that idea is in contravention to Romans 9-11 and God's promises elsewhere, I'd like to know how these folks came to this conclusion. If the commentators thought to write this idea, then there are folks within the body of Christ that agree with it. I'd also like to know where this idea began.

Rather than excite passions in this forum, I'd like recommendations on how to do a specific, rather than general, search in my Portfolio edition to see if there are others with similar thoughts. If I can understand where these folks are coming from, then I might be able to breathe a bit easier.

thanX!

{charley}

running Logos Bible Software 6.0a: Collector's Edition on HP e9220y (AMD Phenom II X4 2.60GHz 8.00GB 64-bit Win 7 Pro SP1) & iPad (mini) apps.

Posts 214
Anthony U | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 6:46 AM

Charles-

I don't want to cause a major controversy over your question about the church and Israel because it can generate heated emotions on both sides.  I think it stems from the difference between Covenant theology and Dispensationalism.  Here is a resourse I would recommend (it reflects a covenantal conviction):  http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/dispensationalism.html

I hope it helps as I don't want to be contentious.  God bless.

Posts 249
DHG | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 6:49 AM

Dr. Charles A. Wootten:

I was so stunned by a similar statement, bordering on heresy...

Try searching your collection for theology books written prior to the 19th century.  Read them; you might be stunned.

Posts 5619
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 6:50 AM

Dr. Charles A. Wootten:

I pulled my print ESV off the shelf to take to church this past Sunday as a result of this discussion on this forum and was glancing through the notes in James and 1st Peter. I was so stunned by a similar statement, bordering on heresy, in both places that I almost dropped the ESV in the floor. The notes indicate that both James and Peter are writing to the "new Israel that has become the church" (my paraphrase) in writing to the Dispersion. While that idea is in contravention to Romans 9-11 and God's promises elsewhere, I'd like to know how these folks came to this conclusion. If the commentators thought to write this idea, then there are folks within the body of Christ that agree with it. I'd also like to know where this idea began.

Rather than excite passions in this forum, I'd like recommendations on how to do a specific, rather than general, search in my Portfolio edition to see if there are others with similar thoughts. If I can understand where these folks are coming from, then I might be able to breathe a bit easier.

thanX!

{charley}

 

While dispensationlists hold a sharp distinction between Israel and the Church, that is not the case with other traditions, particularly covenant theology.  Perhaps a search on the phrase "Israel of God" (from Gal 6:16), would lead to a discussion of this topic.  I would also search for the phrase "Church and Israel" or "Israel NEAR Church" in a collection of systematic theologies (Erickson and Grudem are popular ones that discuss it).

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 301
Jerry Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 7:15 AM

Todd Phillips:
I pulled my print ESV off the shelf to take to church this past Sunday as a result of this discussion on this forum and was glancing through the notes in James and 1st Peter. I was so stunned by a similar statement, bordering on heresy, in both places that I almost dropped the ESV in the floor. The notes indicate that both James and Peter are writing to the "new Israel that has become the church" (my paraphrase) in writing to the Dispersion. While that idea is in contravention to Romans 9-11 and God's promises elsewhere, I'd like to know how these folks came to this conclusion. If the commentators thought to write this idea, then there are folks within the body of Christ that agree with it. I'd also like to know where this idea began.

I'd suggest the ESV is a good translation, while the ESV Study Bible is highly weighted for Covenant Theology. If you haven't examined the Study Bible Notes, it's worth your time so you can "recommend" or "caution" as you understand Scripture. Crossway has done an excellent marketing job with some excellent resources, e.g., their new ESV Atlas, but marketing and newness are never the source of substance . . .

Posts 653
Alex Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 7:17 AM

Dr. Charles A. Wootten:
I'd also like to know where this idea began.

I wonder if a better question might be, where did the idea that it's not, begin.  I suspect it may be a reaction to some who take the position that the church has replaced Israel, which is a much different thing, but that's just my opinion - I've never really researched the question about when it began.

Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 8:50 AM

While I appreciate Charle's objection to the Theological statement re: covenant vs dispensational in the ESV notes.  Let me remind you that the Forum Guidelines do not permit theological debates on the forum. 

I am personally interested in this particular question at the moment, but I am showing myself an example by not pushing the debate further.  Let's stay focused on Logos - which houses works of disparate theological predispositions - and be mindful of our own needs to interpret the text.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 286
Dr. Charles A. Wootten | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2010 9:22 AM

Thomas Black:
Let me remind you that the Forum Guidelines do not permit theological debates on the forum. 

Thomas is correct ... and I "knew" that when I typed the question but it wasn't in the forefront of my mind at that moment as I was simply too surprised (still) to engage total thought processes....heh. What I should have done was simply kept it simple.

I do appreciate the resources that everyone has pointed out and I will take a closer look at this issue. Thank you.

Thus ends any further talk on this topic from me. And I apologize for breaking the guidelines.

God bless

{charley}

running Logos Bible Software 6.0a: Collector's Edition on HP e9220y (AMD Phenom II X4 2.60GHz 8.00GB 64-bit Win 7 Pro SP1) & iPad (mini) apps.

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