Why is the Mac Version so Slow? 8/25/10

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This post has 74 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 698
LogosEmployee
Gavin Anthony:
Am really not sure how Mac Logos can be ready to ship in this condition???!

While your experience is clearly not unique, it is also not universal. A similar number of people log on to tell us how much more improved (faster, even) each beta is.

Unfortunately, most complaints of slowness are not accompanied by much, if anything, in the way of information that would help us to diagnose the issue(s). Interesting and helpful pieces of information when mentioning performance problems:

  • your system specs as reported by the "About This Mac" dialog (under the Apple menu in your menu bar)
  • logs captured as close to the slowness as possible.
  • For those who are comfortable, a screen capture of Activity Monitory showing "System Memory" in the bottom pane and sorted by Real Memory or CPU on the top.

This will usually give us a good idea of what panels you have open and what may be going on in the background.

Director of Engineering for Enterprise and Operations

Posts 150
rog | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2010 6:00 AM

Thanks Tom, I'm pretty happy with  L4 - don't even open up the old version anymore. Today when I loaded my layout - it took over a minute to load the layout and then once it was loaded, I waited for the spinning ball to disappear before I could do anything. I have a note file that is a LIFE journal Reading plan that I open in this layout and scrolling is a little herky-jerky, but not too bad. It's also a very slow scroll - not like my scroll settings on my mac. Then when I opened the NASB Bible to read, the scroll function ALWAYS delays before responding, which usually means I get impatient and try again, and that means I've just scrolled past where I want to be. So I scroll up, delay, impatience.... etc. That's the kind of delays I'm seeing at the moment.

 

Here are my log files again - close to what I have been doing....

8625.Logos4.log

5582.nlog.config

Also a screen shot of my computer....

I'm running a MBPro with 2gigs of RAM and 4.5g of available HD space. the processor is 2.33 GHz. Open programs include: Safari, Logos, iTunes, Word, Powerpoint, and a few various utilities. I have the indexing in L4 paused for 4 hours for the time being.... (which raises another question - why does it index every time I open the program - well about 70% of the time? even though I leave it open to index all night and it's completed when I get up, it still indexes and slows the whole system down, not just L4.)

Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2010 7:20 AM

rog:
why does it index every time I open the program - well about 70% of the time? even though I leave it open to index all night and it's completed when I get up, it still indexes and slows the whole system down, not just L4.

There might be a problem during your indexing that is causing it to fail. If you could post your Indexer.logs and your Console Messages.log from after indexing stops, we might be able to figure out what's going on.

To get your Console Messages.log, open "Console" from Applications > Utilites and select Console. Then Cmd+Shift+S to save a copy.

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 150
rog | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:14 AM

I really appreciate your response rates, Tom. Thanks! Here they are:

 

3441.Console Messages.log

 

7288.Indexer.log

Posts 234
David | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 3:52 PM

Cameron,

With the start of school I have now started using Logos 4 Mac more regularly. I have found that if I have the "Use Internet" preference on, the program returns continuous spinning beach balls, jerky motion, and delays (similar to what people are reporting). However, when I turn the preference off, most of these problems go away. I especially noticed this when switching between other applications (e.g. MS Word) and Logos 4. It appeared (again with Internet on), Logos wanted to synchronize when receiving focus from another applications and also seemed to want to continually synchronize as I navigated through Logos. I hope this helps.

Dave

Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 9:12 PM

Rog,

It looks like the indexer completed without error, but I find it odd that it thought it needed to reindex. Can you try running "Rebuild index" from the command bar and see if that fixes the issue. Sorry about having to index one more time, but I don't know why the system thinks you haven't indexed yet.

From the logs:

09/04/2010 05:31:02 |  INFO | 4 |    LibraryIndex | Checking 0 resources that may have changed since they were last indexed. 

09/04/2010 05:31:02 |  INFO | 4 |    LibraryIndex | 1182 unindexed resources out of 1182 indexable resources; supplemental index count is 5. 

 

Let me know if that works. If it doesn't I'll have to file a bug and look into this when we're back into the office.

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 150
rog | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 10:11 PM

David Schlup:

Cameron,

With the start of school I have now started using Logos 4 Mac more regularly. I have found that if I have the "Use Internet" preference on, the program returns continuous spinning beach balls, jerky motion, and delays (similar to what people are reporting). However, when I turn the preference off, most of these problems go away. I especially noticed this when switching between other applications (e.g. MS Word) and Logos 4. It appeared (again with Internet on), Logos wanted to synchronize when receiving focus from another applications and also seemed to want to continually synchronize as I navigated through Logos. I hope this helps.

Dave

Dave, that's cool - I tried it and am still seeing beach balls and lagging scrolling.... Hmmmm....

 

 

Posts 150
rog | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 10:12 PM

Tom Philpot:

Rog,

It looks like the indexer completed without error, but I find it odd that it thought it needed to reindex. Can you try running "Rebuild index" from the command bar and see if that fixes the issue. Sorry about having to index one more time, but I don't know why the system thinks you haven't indexed yet.

Tom, I'll give it a whirl tonight while I'm sleeping.... I'll let you know if anything else is happening.... Thanks. (Still seeing beach balls and sluggish scrolling though....which was my main issue)

Posts 16
Nathan Monk | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 1:32 AM

Similar to others I am seeing slower performance on B9 and B10.

The startup time takes about twenty seconds.

A passage search looks like it has not worked then ten seconds later it starts to come up but many of the resources have spinners running for about twenty more seconds.

I am on a MBP 2.4 Dual Core 2 with 4Gb mem

65811.Archive.zip

Posts 150
rog | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 6:33 AM

Here are the new logs, Tom after the Rebuild Index last night....

1104.Indexer.log

4152.Console Messages.log

Posts 150
rog | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 7:24 AM

Just to give a speed issue example, I went back to the Home Page in L4Mac and waited about 2 minutes for it to load. Then I typed in simply Revelation 11. I waited a full 4 minutes before I could click on any of the commentaries - all the while, I'm pretty much stuck staring a beach balls spinning to reckless abandon.

 

4 minutes.... and even then, the cross-references, parallel passages, etc. were still spinning and unusable. Wow! I knew I had been waiting, but I didn't know I'd been waiting this long....

 

again: Running a 2.33Ghz MBP with just over 3g of HD space and 2g of RAM and nothing else running in the background slowing the computer down....

Posts 150
rog | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 7:27 AM

oops. Here are my logs again....

4774.Logos4.log

3730.Indexer.log

6036.nlog.config

Posts 73
Chuck Lindsey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 9:06 AM

Maybe I am totally wrong on this... I hope I am. But I am asking anyway...

Is there any chance that the problem we are all seeing here is that the underlying code of L4 is windows specific and thus L4 will never truly be optimized to run on the Mac? If I am understanding correctly, I thought L4 was a Windows product with a Mac UI.. and that the Mac developers were just plugging the UI into the code.

I am certain the Mac guys are optimizing the UI as best as can be... but I am just asking if the underlying code is capable of being optimized for the Mac? I mean it's not native Cocoa, Quartz graphics rendering, OpenCL, 64 bit, QuicktimeX ect... is it? And if it's not... can it truly be as fast as a native app would be? I understand it's using some native Mac-i-ness in the UI but it's the main code that I am speaking about. Is it emulating the Mac Os environment like Parallels or VM Ware?

Please tell me if I have this totally wrong.

What IS concerning to me is that the Mac team seems to be saying that this performance issue ISN'T the norm... that we should all be experiencing something different than we are. If they were saying... just hold on, we know it's rough... it will get better because we haven't done X,Y,Z yet... I would feel better. But when they seem surprised that we're experiencing this, it worries me.

I've been holding out hope for the Mac product since the FIRST Mac version (Logos 1 for Mac, before L4 Mac) and while it seems like everything is IN this new version... the current state of performance makes it useless as our primary tool.

I mean, I'm getting faster results through emulating the Windows environment (VMWare) and running L4 windows than I am with a supposed native Mac app.

Posts 300
John Graves | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 10:09 AM

L4mac is pretty slow on my machine as well.  I am using a Macbook from last year with 4gb ram and nothing else running.  In fact on application manager i have around 2gb free ram usually but it works.  When I don't have use internet off it is completely unusable it seems to want to sync every time I scroll which just locks it down.  

Just wanted to add my voice to those who have slow performance.  

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 10:46 AM

John Graves:
Just wanted to add my voice to those who have slow performance.  
Hi John, if you could add your logs to your voice, that would be most helpful to the developers.

Blessings

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 89
Robin Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 11:40 AM

I would like to echo the same slowness of the program especially in come to searching. Even on the PG search. It takes a while for all results to appear. For example, I did a simple word search on "love," it took 1.36 sec to complete its search. Then to scroll down the list of search, it slowly appears as I scroll to the bottom of the search. In comparison with other bible softwares (just to illustrate my point), all of the searches are usually completed after the moment I click enter.  I am not computer programmer or I am expert in this area but I believe Logos Mac can demonstrate the same power with other competitors. What they are able to do, I believe we can achieve the same and even beyond.

15418.Archive.zip

Posts 3153
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 11:46 AM

Joe Miller:

John Graves:
Just wanted to add my voice to those who have slow performance.  
Hi John, if you could add your logs to your voice, that would be most helpful to the developers.

Blessings

I'd like to echo Cameron's request. In addition to the logs it seems that more specific user data concerning the actual computer is useful when reporting slowness. Here are the points that Cameron requested. 

 

 

  • your system specs as reported by the "About This Mac" dialog (under the Apple menu in your menu bar)
  • logs captured as close to the slowness as possible.
  • For those who are comfortable, a screen capture of Activity Monitory showing "System Memory" in the bottom pane and sorted by Real Memory or CPU on the top.

 

 

Thanks

 

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 11:54 AM

Chuck Lindsey:
Is there any chance that the problem we are all seeing here is that the underlying code of L4 is windows specific and thus L4 will never truly be optimized to run on the Mac? If I am understanding correctly, I thought L4 was a Windows product with a Mac UI.. and that the Mac developers were just plugging the UI into the code.

I asked this question early on. The Apple project that allows Logos to use their libraries designed for Windows is called Mono. Mono is an open source project which means Logos is able to go in and tweak the code. This gives Logos a bit more flexibility for optimization, though, I would guess, it also adds several layers of complexity as Logos has to optimize both their own code and the open source library. But it does give hope that in the end the software won't lag behind. But we will see. I expect it to run at *least* as fast as the PC version running under a virtual machine, and I would actually expect it to run faster than that since there won't be a VM siphoning off resources. Thus far the Logos version is still some ways behind that. But optimization continues.

Edit: One reason I haven't posted logs is because I've gone back to using Logos in a VM since the sluggishness was becoming a bit of a hindrance to getting work done. But for the next few days at least I'll try to stick with the Mac version and will try to grab logs when things seem particularly bogged down.

Posts 300
John Graves | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 7:56 PM

Tommy Ball:

I'd like to echo Cameron's request. In addition to the logs it seems that more specific user data concerning the actual computer is useful when reporting slowness. Here are the points that Cameron requested. 

 

 

  • your system specs as reported by the "About This Mac" dialog (under the Apple menu in your menu bar)
  • logs captured as close to the slowness as possible.
  • For those who are comfortable, a screen capture of Activity Monitory showing "System Memory" in the bottom pane and sorted by Real Memory or CPU on the top.

 

 

Thanks

Hey guys sorry but I don't know how to do the logging (and don't have time to watch videos and learn) and to be honest I only boot up logos 4 mac about once a week and then just force quit.  I have a windows machine that I bought to do my work on.  I just noticed that there seemed to be a lot of sentiment that no one was experiencing slowness and I am so I wanted to tell you.  I hope my system specs help thanks for your hard work, I know it will be great when you are finished.

Model Name: MacBook

  Model Identifier: MacBook5,2

  Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo

  Processor Speed: 2.13 GHz

  Number Of Processors: 1

  Total Number Of Cores: 2

  L2 Cache: 3 MB

  Memory: 4 GB

  Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz

  Boot ROM Version: MB52.0088.B06

  SMC Version (system): 1.38f5

 

Posts 300
John Graves | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 8:05 PM

Just wanted to tell you guys that with use internet off, the program works great.  It is only after turning use internet on that I experience problems, hope that helps someone somewhere.  The console just keeps repeating syncing information.  

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