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This post has 48 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 1
Chris Myers | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Aug 31 2010 6:36 PM

I've been told it "right around the corner"  a few times now and am getting tired of waiting...how much longer?

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 31 2010 7:10 PM

...so the NIV was the first translation I read all the way through... it was memorable

 

...anyone else?

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 31 2010 7:28 PM

The NIV was my first Bible I purchased. Its the one I mostly read, and the one I tend to remember verses from.

I hope I will like the NIV-2011 next year. I also hope we continue to have NIV-Classic and TNIV in Logos, once we get the new one.

(I did always wonder about all the things in the NIV footnotes: "Some manuscripts have ..." etc, and now with Logos, I can find out about them if I wish.)

I dont currently have an iThing (iPhone or iPad), but if/when I do, I will want NIV if at all possible.

Posts 767
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 1 2010 11:15 AM

The NIV is so popular because Zondervan bought shelf space at the front of all Christian book stores not because it is a good translation. It is not horrible, but it is by no means very good.

Posts 5613
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 1 2010 11:29 AM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:

The NIV is so popular because Zondervan bought shelf space at the front of all Christian book stores not because it is a good translation. It is not horrible, but it is by no means very good.

Really? Maybe--but that would have been easy when it came out in 1978--we didn't have the glut of translations then that we have today.

I thought it was popular because it was the most modern translation available throughout most of the 1980s.   It seemed like the selection in bookstores was NIV, NASB, RSV, and KJV.  The NRSV didn't come out until 1989, leaving the NIV the honor of being the most recent translation for over a decade.  That's a long time to gain a foothold, and Zondervan probably didn't need to that spend much to get bookstores to display a new product considering there wasn't much competition.  People were hungry then for a translation that didn't use archaic pronouns, which the other major translations were still using.

 

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Posts 516
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:23 PM

I was always told the main reason the NIV was so popular because it was done at an 8th grade reading level, as opposed to the NASB and KJV wich was considered to be at the 12th grade reading level. Of course archaic words and so forth did not help the popularity of the other translations.

Posts 70
Andrew Hughes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:24 PM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:

The NIV is so popular because Zondervan bought shelf space at the front of all Christian book stores not because it is a good translation. It is not horrible, but it is by no means very good.

While it may be true that Zondervan made that business decision as a marketing approach - and I certainly disagree with many of their business decisions - the truth is the absence of any real competition is the real reason. Today and for a number of years we have a variety of choices like the ESV or NKJV, but for years (as Todd points out) there were no other translations that credibly struck a balance between readability and accuracy. Whatever one thinks of how well this was accomplished, one must give credit to the translators for creating something that was very much needed. I remember as a child being incredibly frustrated memorizing scripture - Who talked like that anyways? I for one found the NIV to be a very much welcomed change and it certainly aided in growing my love for scripture. It was the only choice for so long that I still use if for regular reading even though I prefer other translations for study... and I know many who came to Christ or grew up in the time period referenced by Todd, for whom the same is true... It was the groundbreaking nature of the translators work that gave them the head start which now gives them the role of "incumbent". 

To Chris' original post; I too am getting tired of waiting... and saying I trust Bob and the folks will get this done right is starting to ring hollow ;)

Posts 516
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:34 PM

Andrew,

Logos is at Zondervan's mercy, if it was left up to Logos it would already be available. This delay is in no way Logos faulf. Bob P said some publishers think of different platforms as additional revenue streams for them. Logos is trying to break new ground with a pay once for "all" platforms we own. I am thankful that we now have 5,400 books available on the iphone/ipad, am I'm sure more are coming soon.

Posts 70
Andrew Hughes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 1 2010 12:39 PM

Bobby Terhune:

Andrew,

Logos is at Zondervan's mercy, if it was left up to Logos it would already be available. This delay is in no way Logos faulf. Bob P said some publishers think of different platforms as additional revenue streams for them. Logos is trying to break new ground with a pay once for "all" platforms we own. I am thankful that we now have 5,400 books available on the iphone/ipad, am I'm sure more are coming soon.

I know it's not their fault, and I don't really mean it to sound like I'm blaming the Logos folks, but it's hard to be patient sometimes :) 

Posts 2
Mike Aldrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 17 2010 8:43 AM

Bobby Terhune:

Andrew,

Logos is at Zondervan's mercy, if it was left up to Logos it would already be available. This delay is in no way Logos faulf. Bob P said some publishers think of different platforms as additional revenue streams for them. Logos is trying to break new ground with a pay once for "all" platforms we own. I am thankful that we now have 5,400 books available on the iphone/ipad, am I'm sure more are coming soon.

I don't disagree with you, I think it is Zondervan that is holding things up.  What perplexes me is why have other iphone apps been approved for NIV.  Olive Tree also has a pay once model.  I have not had to repurchase bibles going from Palm to WinMobile to now the iPhone.  What's different about that model that they get approved and Logos doesn't.

I know it's frustration talking, but today (September x, 2010), Olive Tree is the best Bible platform for the iPhone IMO.  I WANT it to be Logos, but the books I want to have with me "portably" are available on Olive Tree, and not Logos.  My "heavy duty" Bible study will remain in Logos on my desktop, but for reading / looking things up "on the road", they aren't there yet.

Is there anything we can do to speed things up?  Is there a contact at Zondervan we can harass (um, I mean contact ;-)

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to trying...

Posts 620
Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 17 2010 9:10 AM

I am certain this is a NIV/Zondervan issue. Furthermore, Logos is not likely going to win Zondervan's support by bad mouthing them in the forums.

If you remember back 6-8 years ago we used to have a separate CD and registration code for the NIV (while all the other translations were included in one of the 4-8 cds included with a Logos Base Package). I am guessing that Logos is still dealing with this mentality with the NIV/ Zondervan group.

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Posts 2724
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 17 2010 10:35 AM

The fact that NIV always seems to be the most restricted Bible translation is telling. Every Bible software  company that has trouble getting modern translations seem to have problems getting NIV most. Others like NASB, ESV, NRSV, HCSB seem to come much quicker. I've reviewed and used almost every Bible program on the PC side of things and find this the most restricted.

Why is this so? A Bible producers who loves the scriptures would want to get it out to the public. A popular translation like the NIV is desired on almost every platform for doing Digital Bible Study. The users want it and Bible producers who love the scriptures should want them to read it.

So why is Zondervan so restrictive with their product?

My opinion is that they are a company that sees it as a supply/demand issue that allows them to charge more and want more than others.

Once Harper Collins bought them out they ceased to be a Christian company. Now they are a division that produces Christian products for a secular company.

I'm not being critical of the people. But I am of the company. And therefore I seldom if ever use the NIV. And when people ask me as a pastor what to get, I first make a few suggestions and then say, whatever you do, don't get the NIV. And this issue is one of the primary reasons why.

Posts 5613
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 17 2010 11:47 AM

Zondervan only has rights to sell the NIV in North America.  It's published elsewhere by Biblica (formerly International Bible Society), who holds the actual copyrights.

I suspect it is this arrangement that makes licensing the NIV for new media more difficult.  What's odd is that Laridian also has a "buy once, use anywhere" license for their resources too, and they don't seem to have had the problems Logos has.  The difference is probably "the cloud".

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Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2010 10:04 AM

Bobby Terhune:
I was always told the main reason the NIV was so popular because it was done at an 8th grade reading level,

This is one of the reasons (if not the main one) that it is so popular. But this was a purposeful choice on the part of the Committee on Bible Translation. With the average reading level in the US being 8th, and the majority of readers somewhere between the 7th and 9th level, they translated to said grade level in concurrence with their main goal:

"that it (the NIV) would be an accurate translation and one that would have clarity and literary quality and so prove suitable for public and private reading, teaching, preaching, memorizing and liturgical use."

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 76
Philip Gurgel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 3 2010 6:42 AM

If the problem is that they want us to pay for the license a second time, then why can't Logos just give us that option?  

I for one would gladly pay to have it on my iphone.  At the very least Logos could give us that option instead of doing nothing.  

I, too, have stopped using Logos' app for this same reason.  If I can't use the Bibles (NIV, NVI) that I use on a daily basis, why should I bother using it? 

Even though it seems like the majority of the problem is with Zondervan.  It would seem like Logos isn't really doing anything about providing us the customers with an alternative, even if it means charging us a second time for the digital rights.  At this point I'm sure I'm not the only one who would rather pay up than wait for a day that is likely never going to come (Zondervan allowing the NIV, NVI to be shown on our I-devices.)  

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 3 2010 5:50 PM

Philip, allowing one company to double charge us would make the other companies think about it also and that would set a very dangerous precedence.  I know that we all have out favorite versions of our bible, but there are other versions that would do much of what you want... or you could use one of the online NIV bibles if it simply has to be NIV.  Before you leave the office, download 8 or 10 chapters and save it to the ipod.

Posts 76
Philip Gurgel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 3 2010 6:12 PM

Except there isn't nearly the demand for the other products, so the idea that other companies will be able to get a lot of money by withholding their licenses doesn't hold a lot of water in my mind.   NIV is the most popular Bible in the US, which gives it a tremendous amount of leverage.  

I hate how Zondervan is playing hard ball, but when you are a "Bible Software" company, it would sure seem be in the best interest of that company to allow their users to have access to the most popular Bible translation.  

I'm not going to compromise which Bible I use because of my Bible Software.  If my BIble Software program can't offer what I need, I'll look elsewhere for software that can meet my needs.

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 3 2010 6:40 PM

well no matter how you look at it Philip, it is still a very slippery slope to travel!

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 3 2010 8:24 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:
The fact that NIV always seems to be the most restricted Bible translation is telling. Every Bible software  company that has trouble getting modern translations seem to have problems getting NIV most. Others like NASB, ESV, NRSV, HCSB seem to come much quicker. I've reviewed and used almost every Bible program on the PC side of things and find this the most restricted.

I worked in Christian publishing for over 2 decades. Publishers always said that the Lockman Foundation (NASB/Amplified) was the most difficult Bible company to deal with. I think that it was more because they were more ministry "minded" and less "business" minded. Remember the recent announcement of the old NASB in Logos format and the high price that it asked?

Posts 2693
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 4 2010 12:32 AM

Todd Phillips:
The difference is probably "the cloud".

The difference is likely to be the wording of the licence from zondervan, Logos has had the NIV since before there were mobile devices, so likely the agreement makes no mention of mobile devices....  

Laridian with full respect to them, are a newer company and being an original mobile (palm) developer their licence likely says mobile platforms..

I use Laridian as my main iphone bible, not just for NIV, but also as it work fully offline, allows you to take notes and colour highlight verses...
its the notes that clinches it for me.. 

 

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