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Posts 2738
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 4 2010 6:19 AM

Edwin Bowden:

Kevin A. Purcell:
The fact that NIV always seems to be the most restricted Bible translation is telling. Every Bible software  company that has trouble getting modern translations seem to have problems getting NIV most. Others like NASB, ESV, NRSV, HCSB seem to come much quicker. I've reviewed and used almost every Bible program on the PC side of things and find this the most restricted.

I worked in Christian publishing for over 2 decades. Publishers always said that the Lockman Foundation (NASB/Amplified) was the most difficult Bible company to deal with. I think that it was more because they were more ministry "minded" and less "business" minded. Remember the recent announcement of the old NASB in Logos format and the high price that it asked?

I speak only as an outside observer and someone uses nearly every Bible software product produced for the Windows platform and the Internet. The NASB is everywhere. Even the free applications/sites, if they have a selection of add-on translations that can be paid for, will have the NASB but only a few have the NIV. When asking the developer why, the answers I've gotten have always been that Lockman is happy to sell the NASB but Zondervan is very picky about who they will sell it to. That is my reasoning for my opinion.

Posts 490
R. Mansfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 4 2010 7:39 AM

I notice the TNIV is not available either (I much prefer the TNIV over the NIV). Has anyone actually confirmed that it's Zondervan holding these Bibles up, beyond all the speculation of such? 

Are other Zondervan titles available in iOS yet?

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Posts 170
Bob | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 4 2010 2:33 PM

I took care of the problem by buying the Tecarta app NIV Bible for $5.   Now I can use my iPad in Sunday School.  Logos for serious work, NIV to match what we have our 3rd graders read.

Bob - 17" MBP quad 2.3GHz 4GB  and iMAC

Posts 76
Philip Gurgel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 4 2010 9:14 PM

Well, no mater how you look at it Rev Todd, the Bible you use in your day to day ministry isn't being withheld from you.  Imagine if just the ESV was being withheld from the program.  Would you not be clamouring for the same exact thing?  I suspect you would be.  

Just how slippery of a slope it would be to charge for the mobile rights of perhaps the most popular book in their library can be debated.  I imagine, since Logos has already received the mobile rights to the vast majority of the books found in their library, that such an argument is now rather mute.  It may have been a valid argument a year ago before the majority of book companies signed off on allowing the use of mobile copies.   

On top of that I suspect that any new books that are added to the library carry with them wording in the contracts that allow users to make use of the book across multiple platforms (something that was probably not the case when the NIV was added to the Logos library).  

Quite honestly, I think this idea that charging for one book, is going to cause a situation where we have to pay for mobile access a large number of our books, a bit overboard and dramatic.  But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 4 2010 9:34 PM

Philip, I agree if I did not have my ESV I would not be happy, but at the same time, I would not want to pay a second time to logos for the opportunity to have it... instead I would get it from a different app.  Yes I would be paying for it a second time, but the publisher would not be seeing that way.  I guess I was taught to stand on principles for the greater good.  What really needs to happen is to get  David Cook to understand that we will not purchase from their platform when we already have a far superior platform in Logos.

Posts 76
Philip Gurgel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 5:39 AM

"I guess I was taught to stand on principles for the greater good."

Snarky, pastor, very snarky.  I also was taught this.  And would it not be for the greater good to allow access to the most popular Bible?  Why should the largest group of Bible readers have to resort to subpar translations in order to receive their daily bread of life?  Or have to resort to lesser Bible programs to have access to it?

It seems to be you who are making vast assumptions on what would happen were LOGOS to allow the NIV to charge for their license again.  And you know what they say about about those who assume...

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 6:04 AM

Philip, I am afraid that this is one that although we both want the same thing... the NIV on the Iphone, that we will have  to agree to disagree on the better way to make it happen.  your belief is to get it on there no matter the cost, my belief is to make it as affordable as possible so that more can can afford to have it.  I doubt we will ever agree on this until if has actually made it over to iphone format.

Posts 76
Philip Gurgel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 11:13 AM

I never said, "no matter the cost".  That's putting words in my mouth.  I've believe I've seen the NIV offered for as cheap as $5 in the App store.  It would seem to me that LOGOS could probably work out a similar deal.  That is hardly "unaffordable".  

To be frank, by all appearances if we are going to hold our breath until Zondervan freely offers the NIV on the Iphone, we are going to pass out from oxygen deprivation, it just isn't going to happen.  So what you present essentially amounts to a false choice.

It would appear the only way the NIV does appear on the LOGOS app would be if money were paid to Zondervon for the digital license.   And I see two ways of LOGOS going about that:

Either 1) Logos pays the license fee for all of their subscribers in a move of good faith toward their customers (perhaps paying for said fees via raised prices on other books)

Or 2) They pass the license fee cost down to the customer and let us decide whether the mobile version is of enough value to us to pay said fee.  

Posts 490
R. Mansfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 5 2010 11:32 AM

Philip Gurgel:

It would appear the only way the NIV does appear on the LOGOS app would be if money were paid to Zondervon for the digital license. 

Do we really know that? Have either Logos or Zondervan spoken anywhere to this issue, or is all this speculation? I know a few folks at Zondervan, and I also know from personal experience that their legal department does NOTHING quickly. Normally, any contract with writers alone takes months to see print, long after initial agreements are made.

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Posts 28
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 15 2010 9:24 PM

This is the largest reason that my friends won't use logos 4 iphone because they can't get the NIV and though it may not be the best translation it is the most used. Those friends of mine that do have logos have some other software too because of the NIV.

Posts 98
April Pyle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 10:42 AM

What is your favorite translation?

April

Posts 4
Nate Chatellier | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 2:34 PM

I also have stopped using the iPhone app for this reason. Unfortunately, I feel the need to give it a low app store rating as well. This is no reflection of the quality of the programming, but if I were to create a "Disney App" and then not include Disney content due to licensing issues, the app could be programmed & designed beautifully but still would deserve a low rating. The NIV translation is BY FAR the main reason I want the app on my iPhone, and so therefore, the app is useless to me without out. Too bad...  =(

Posts 3768
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 3:14 PM

you know what?  I want the NIV, too.  But fortunately my Logos library accessible on the iPod touch far outweighs my lack of the NIV.  I still use it daily.  And I have plenty of translations to choose from.  But the lack of NIV does surprise me.  I have it across multiple platforms from a company that specializes in handhelds.  Yet . . . I don't have nearly the library with them as I do Logos.  I use both.  

Wondering: can Bible Gateway be accessed on the iPhone?  I haven't tried it, but they have the NIV, don't they?

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 3
Mark Papierski | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 22 2011 5:13 AM

The transition to all my products (including the NIV) with Olive Tree went very well yesterday and it’s great to have all my offline bibles on one platform. Your product line at Logos has great potential, but folks are definitely going to migrate towards Olive Tree if you and Zondervan don’t reach an agreement soon. I was so impressed with their service and iPod Touch functionality that I purchased an additional $68 in new software.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 23 2011 8:49 AM

Mark Papierski:

The transition to all my products (including the NIV) with Olive Tree went very well yesterday and it’s great to have all my offline bibles on one platform. Your product line at Logos has great potential, but folks are definitely going to migrate towards Olive Tree if you and Zondervan don’t reach an agreement soon. I was so impressed with their service and iPod Touch functionality that I purchased an additional $68 in new software.

I don't know that people will make a complete transition, unless their library and study needs are minimal.  Logos simply offers too much in the way of volume of standard and critical works, as well as a more thorough approach (and study tools--not meaning books) to bible study--which is ever increasingly being translated to the iphone application.  As for me, I have a few other Bible software applications (which shall here remain nameless, lol) but by far my most used is Logos.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 2832
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 24 2011 10:00 PM

Philip Gurgel:

If the problem is that they want us to pay for the license a second time, then why can't Logos just give us that option?  

And would you like to pay twice for all your resources?  If Logos agrees to pay twice for the NIV, do you seriously think the others will not want the same deal?   That is pretty short sighted in my opinion.  I feel Logos is looking out for my interests by not agreeing to require us to buy a second license for NIV.  I appreciate that.  I want the NIV, but not that badly.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 4:44 PM

I heard an interview with Francis Schaeffer's son Frank the other day. He was lamenting on the over commercialization of Christianity. One of his main points was that Rupert Murdoch made more money off of Zondervan last year, then he did from Fox.

Knowing this, I can't help but think that when it comes to a popular Zondervan resource, one is never likely to see the word "free" in it's description...

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 386
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 5:34 PM

Michael Childs:

Philip Gurgel:

If the problem is that they want us to pay for the license a second time, then why can't Logos just give us that option?  

And would you like to pay twice for all your resources?  If Logos agrees to pay twice for the NIV, do you seriously think the others will not want the same deal?   That is pretty short sighted in my opinion.  I feel Logos is looking out for my interests by not agreeing to require us to buy a second license for NIV.  I appreciate that.  I want the NIV, but not that badly.

Michael, 

Your statement of not wanting to pay for it twice is simply not accurate. Logos intial agreement with Zondervan should have included contract language that allowed the product (NIV Bible) to be used on on any computer or computer device (i.e. PDA), for one licensee, not limiting it to a specific device.  

Most publishers grant you (the person who has purchased or received the e-book), a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to install and use the e-book and you may download or install the e-book onto your computer(s). You may make reasonable back-up copies of the e-book to avoid losing it. You may not give copies of the e-book to others, or make the e-book available for others to copy or download.

The price Zondervan wanted for this more comprehensive usage required a more expensive fee for the license agreement.  My bet is Logos did not anticipate this, and it was an oversight that was missed in reading the contract language at the time, or if at the time PDA devices were simply not thought to have been an important device to include into the license.  

 

 

 

Posts 2465
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 7:17 PM

Mark Papierski:

The transition to all my products (including the NIV) with ***** went very well yesterday and it’s great to have all my offline bibles on one platform. Your product line at Logos has great potential, but folks are definitely going to migrate towards *****  if you and Zondervan don’t reach an agreement soon. I was so impressed with their service and iPod Touch functionality that I purchased an additional $68 in new software.

Question: Did ***** manage to get an Exclusive where it would be the ONLY supplier for mobile devises?  [i.e. locking out all of the competition]

That product seems to sell many different versions - one for this and one for that other - Do you get the rights to your "library" on all platforms?

or do you have to buy the NIV, ESV, and others for each platform under the ***** label?

Logos wants to allow it on ALL platforms and the ***** website implies you get to use in on one and only one for the fee. [to order you need to tell them the platform to send you]  [[You have not selected a handheld device.- please click here to select one.]]

Posts 2832
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 9:11 PM

MJD:
Your statement of not wanting to pay for it twice is simply not accurate.

MJD,

You, me, and most all of us are speculating without many facts on all this.  However I still believe that if we pay twice to use resources on both L4 and the iPhone / iPad app, we will soon be paying twice for all resources.  That is the way business works in the real world.

Whatever else may or may not be accurate, that is, in my opinion.

One thing I would bet.  I would bet that if this was as simple to fix as most posts here assume it is, Bob and the Logos leadership would not need advice from a public forum to tell them to fix it.  They know that people want the NIV, and they want to provide the resources their customers want.  So I assume there is a good reason the NIV is not on the iPhone / iPad app.  That would be my bet for sure.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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