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David Emme | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jul 1 2009 4:43 PM

Hi fellow Logos users,

 

Today, I got the latest issue of Bible Study Magazine. It has many great features and articels.

for instant, there is an article about the gentleman whom started Sermnindex. Great article, but really does not go too much into what it takes to study the bible.

Another article called, "On your honor" about a preacher who made a pledge to keep scriptures in the pulpit. Not so much it can be used outside the pulpit, but many things passed off as preaching often does not come from the actual bible text itself. Again, great article.

Then the section on the bible, it is more commentary and devotional as opposed to actual study, great for people who always wandered about Hebrewsm but perhaps a bit timid of trying to study it. This is a great jumping off point.

Then two articles about people in popular Christianity. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this, sometimes they give keen insights into why we should give emphasis into studying the bible. One was about Lee Strobel, the other one about Billy Graham's daughter. I have mixed feelings about this. Do I really care how some CCM artist(not a big fan of CCM) or some Christian actor or sports professional does stuff for bible study? Frankly, I understand how this will appeal to some people, but really does not appeal to me.

On a section called, "Investigative Bible Study", this time with Lee Strobel, he brings some good tips on how to read the bible. It is okay. Again, what I read did not appeal to me much. Yet, in the past when they had Mark Driscoll whom I am not a great fan of, brought some keen insights into talkng about how fathers should be the "Pastor" of their family. This piqued my interes very much and once married and have childeren, this is something I plan on putting into practice. The stuff on Strobel was not unimpressive to me, it would be kind of like, "Been there, done that" and see how others whom have not approached the bible as he suggests would be productive for others. So, it is not a negative critique of this section. Sometimes it is very good and other times it is not that interesting to me.

I say all this to bring what I would like to see in Bible Study Magazine. This from a young teenager's point of view, though I am now 36. This because I was in my early teens when I became saved. If this came out when I first got saved, I would have been definetly interested in this publication? Why? After recieving Christ as Lord and Saviour in a large charismatic church, what was born in me was not just God's Son, but a hunger and desire to be able to undrstand the bible(which I did not), study the bible(Which until after I entered adulthood and found a good biblical mentor-again did not have a clue.)

My testimony is, I did not have any ideal how to study and understand the bible, so I just read it on my own. With no one to guide me in isntruction, I read and highlighted and wrote down questions I had on a text. Sometimes people would have answers, sometimes they would not. Our new Pastor who was a former semnary professor and President started a bible institute at our church. I asked if I could partake, even if I did not officially do classes-I expressed my desire to simply learn the bible and to learn how to study it for myself.

I was denied this oppurtunity by the Pator because I was too "young"

Here is what I would like to see in bible study magazine, wheat I would expect from a bible study magazine.

First, instruction in the first principles of how to approach the bible in reading and studying. I am not talking about people merely talking about it, but concrete steps and tools people new to the bible could use to start reading and breaking down scriptures in a understandable way to the new or immature Christian seeking and desiring to study the bible for themselves, but really does not have a clue where to start.

Second, A similar feature for the more knowledgable brothers and sisters in Christ.

Many times, people take application and count it as an understanding of the text. At times, this might actually be correct, but most times, application is not the same thing as understanding the meaning of a text.

So having a seperate section for "applying" the bible stating applying apllication s not the same as deriving an understanding of a text.

I understand why having some popular preachers and authors highlighted in this magazine and have no problem with it. What about not so well known pastors and Christians, but can bring such a unique view and understanding of how to break down a passage and then how to apply it.

Simply put, I see a lot of application and at times, commentary, and why we should really be in the bible-for example the stuff that Driscoll put out or in the case of the current issue, the letter from the editor.

What I do not see is articles to teach both the younger and older Christians how to start studying the bible. This is what I had hoped to see.

What do you think, am I being to "hard" in my critiques. Do you agree, disagree. What would you like to see in Bible Study Magazine. I go back to my days as a young Christian and would have been excited to have seen a product like this come out. Yet, after seeing much of what has been published, I tend to think I would have as a young Christian eventually would have stopped buying and reading this magazine.

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 2:07 PM

When I heard LOGOS was going to publish an old fashioned print format of a magazine called "Bible Study" I thought it was going to flop. There are lots of print magazines with a Christian flavor and LOGOS is known as the premier Bible SOFTWARE company. At a time when I have finally committed to move from print library to digital, the very provider of the bulk of my digital library was going to start printing.....  Crazy World it is.   Since the introductory subscription rate was so low I thought I would give it a try. Then if it did flop the few issues would be collectible.Smile

I have been pleased with every issue. I think they are right on target with content. Could be I only remember the really good ones but I see a lot of articles where methodology is put into practice, walking the reader through what the writer is saying. It is very similar to what my Bible college professors would do. What's more is, the subjects I find in the magazine are things the average reader is not going to run across on their own.

I would not like to see them go in a generalized direction of Bible intro/surveys or study methods. There are already a lot of useful titles in Libronix digital format that serve that purpose. One such is:

Bible Made Easy Series (John Hunt Publishers, 13 titles) on sale now for $59.95 here http://www.logos.com/products/details/2007

several more such digital books can be found in the various packages. Most Christian bookstores already carry an array of these basic "how to study the Bible" books in print format.

An aside regarding being "too young" in the pursuit of God -- the infamous bank robber John Dillinger responded to an altar call as a young boy. The preacher met him and turned him away saying he was too young and to come back later.


Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 25
Chuck Jaeger | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 7:56 PM

Logos and Moody worked together and created AM Bible Courseware several years back. I purchased the complete series of 32 titles ($800) and found that I was really challenged to learn how to use a variety of resources that Logos has to offer. I was exposed to different Bible translations, dictionaries, encyclopedias, commentaries, theology books, maps and other multi-media tools.  I wish I had been exposed to this product sooner, I would never be satisfied to go back to my old methods of studying which was much like you described, because my eyes have been opened to discover so much more can be learned in much less time.

Like you, I was wondering what to expect from Bible Study Magazine.   At first I wondered if it was just going to be a booklet of advertisement related to Logos. I was impressed to see that it was more related to those who have made studying and sharing the Bible as "The Way" of life.

Now is Bible Study Magazine targeting only the new believer? No, but I think that is because most Logos users are advanced Bible students, many are highly trained professionals.  It appears that the magazine targets believers that are experienced and at the same time hopefully peaks the curiosity of the novice and even the unbeliever.  I had actually hoped that each addition would highlight a digital resource and explain how to use it would be nice.

 

Posts 87
David Emme | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 8:33 PM

Chuck Jaeger:
Now is Bible Study Magazine targeting only the new believer? No, but I think that is because most Logos users are advanced Bible students, many are highly trained professionals. 

 

There is no doubt there is a need for the more advanced Christians, yet I am not sure if this is a criticism in Christianity or just the magazine when there is so little done for those who are not as well versed in scriptures, but thirst to be able to understand for oneself.

I gues my biggest criticism is I could care less how a Christian rock and roll star or some actor does in bible study. I do respect and enjoy what they do with authors and pastors and would rather see that as opposed to what happens in popular Christianity. They are not trained in anything, but how to act or strum a guitar. This is not to say that they are unable to bring something to instruct, but for the most part, I see most of popular Christianity as weak and pathetic.

I just do not seethat portion appealing to me and would rather see something that takes Christians through the first steps to the more difficult such as Chiasmus constructions of Hebrew poetry and perhaps post these on a blog or somewhere else.

Even to the point, put some of the harder understandings of hermeneuticul devices, define them and how to defin them so both the young and more aged Christian can gain something from these articles. It would only take two pages a piece, this is what I would do.

I know that some will state there are books on this. Yet when I see a 500 page book, that tends to be a bit intimidating and other texts wet the appetite do not go into enough to build a good foundation. Now, some do, but because of the titles-some do not see it as a book on how to understand the bible such as "How to read the bible for all it's worth" which is a great starting textand its companion book. Perapsif Gordon Fee and the person he wrote thos books with would write another book in a similar format to start approaching actual bible study principles.

Maybe I am being to hard and critical. Just would like to see something for those desiring to learn and then have a bit for them.

 

 

Posts 150
Jim Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 9:18 PM

David Emme:
I guess my biggest criticism is I could care less how a Christian rock and roll star or some actor does in bible study. I do respect and enjoy what they do with authors and pastors and would rather see that as opposed to what happens in popular Christianity. They are not trained in anything, but how to act or strum a guitar. This is not to say that they are unable to bring something to instruct, but for the most part, I see most of popular Christianity as weak and pathetic.

Maybe I am being to hard and critical. Just would like to see something for those desiring to learn and then have a bit for them

David, I'm definitely with you on this.  I've been disappointed by the "rock stars of Bible study" approach the magazine has taken, and I hope they change to something more serious.  It is difficult to decide precisely what the audience is that they are shooting for ... and what their goals are.  It appears to be "devotional" level stuff, by and large ... not "study" level stuff.

I'm frankly hoping that the BSM is still in the growing-pains process.  I've found it to be acceptable, but not outstanding - I was hoping for something a bit "meatier", I suppose.  I'm keeping an eye on things like the ratio of pages devoted to advertisements vs articles, and for the articles, how much page-space is filled with pictures rather than content.  The other measure I use is whether the content is comparable to an extract from a study-book that I might buy ... versus the blurbs on the back cover of that same book.  On a scale of 10, I guess my rating for it so far is about a five.  My measure does not have to do with how much it costs, but whether the time spent reading it actually benefits me as much as spending that same time reading some more of the many Libronix books I own that I have not yet gotten to.

What I'd REALLY be pleased to see would be for BSM to publish authors who have such firm, no-compromising yet fully Biblical stances that they are NOT "rock stars" simply because of their "iron sharpens iron" ministry.  Folks like Paul Washer, for instance. 

We need MORE "puritanical-heart" preaching, and less fluff and tickle-the-ears stuff ... the bookstores are full of that nowadays.

I would hope that BSM would provide opportunities for the men of God who He regularly uses to STIR hearts, even though the stirring includes exhoration and rebuke.  We need more of that, these days.

Just my two cents, fwiw.

=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ...
Jim Dean

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 10:12 PM

Chuck Jaeger   Replied: Today 9:56 PM
"I had actually hoped that each addition would highlight a digital resource and explain how to use it would be nice."


Me too.    I subscribe to Morris Proctor's e-mails and read his tips on the blog. I learn something new every single time but they are of course focused on the inner workings of the LOGOS software. I would love for the magazine to deal specifically with available RESOURCES like you say. Still, I am generally pleased with the current content and frequently find myself talking with others about it.

I am too myopic to consider exactly who LOGOS is targeting as a readership. I just assumed they were targeting me. The idea for a dedicated page for new or seasoned Bible students sounds good. Maybe a glossary too, for the newbies? I do agree with David and JimDean about the "fluff." I want Bible teachers to teach me. I can occasionally learn or be blessed from hearing a testimony but BSM isn't where I would look for that. Paul Washer is an excellent example of the direction I'd like to go.

I do think I'm getting my money's worth with the magazine as it is. But I would welcome improvement.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 87
David Emme | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 10:40 PM

JimDean:

David, I'm definitely with you on this.  I've been disappointed by the "rock stars of Bible study" approach the magazine has taken, and I hope they change to something more serious.  It is difficult to decide precisely what the audience is that they are shooting for ... and what their goals are.  It appears to be "devotional" level stuff, by and large ... not "study" level stuff.

Thanks, I thougt I was alone on this. I love Paul Washer and his preaching and would love to see him say a few words on bible study as well as I am sure people tey will have such as Macarthur and others.

As I see it, Logos appeals to a more conservative crowd and so should the magazine.

My Ideal would be to have one section for an author like Fee or someone else, one section for a current Godly pastor standing for the right doctrines and practices, and then finally pulling some things from now dead authors or Pastors and their thoughts on bible study such as Owen, Spurgeon, Bunyan, Pink, Tozer, or any numerous of dead authors they sale stuff about if they really want to highligt some of the works they sale-and also about bible study. I am a busines major, so I know some of this will be geared to selling a poduct. What about some words from an author that will blow us away in our thinking or give at least a hearty amen.

A tips section for Logos would also be great, peraps get Morris Proctor to do a montly column on this. I saw someone else mention this.

To tell you truthfully, if I want to read about the latest popular Christian "pop star", actor, or someone going through a  hard time in life with their own life or their kids-I will pick up a subscription to Christianity Today or some other popular magazine.

I do hope it is about growing pains. I do not mean to sound like the critical, judgemental guy. Yet, since I love Logos and buy a lot, I should at least let 'em know wat I want to see. Now the stuff by Mark Driscoll(am not a dig fan of his) I was really blessed by is thoughts on being a Pastor to your family. That blew me away.

God bless

Dav Emme

 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 13 2009 12:22 AM

I imagine there are all types of LOGOS users but guess most respect the Bible if that is what you mean by conservative.

I seem to find myself agreeing with you closely on Bible Study Magazine content. The tiresome "fluff" is precisely why I canceled my subscription to Christianity Today. I also canceled their Leadership magazine sub because it seemed to say the end justifies the means. The church growth movement, formulated systems and statistical analysis.....

I would much rather hear from faithful, Godly teachers than the hippest pop-star from the latest mega-church. The "dead guys" like Spurgeon, Tozer and Torrey are trustworthy. I am even highly impressed with Augustine & Aquinas, tho' I'm not Catholic. As for the living guys, MacArthur, Piper, Packer, and Ravi Zacharias always bless me.

It may just be all of these good teachers offer a systematic theology and that appeals to my limited understanding. The "seeker" churches just don't nurture my spiritual growth.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 87
David Emme | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 13 2009 1:49 AM

Matthew C Jones:
The "dead guys" like Spurgeon, Tozer and Torrey are trustworthy.

 

Yes, did not mean to put it that way as the "dead guys". Besides Macarthur, Piper,White, and Boice I find my self reading more from Tozer, Spuergon, Pink, Bunyan, Owen, and others. Cannot wait until they come out with the biography series on Nettleson.

Hey, I am an Idependent Fundamental Baptist and cannot wait to see all the other works of Calvin and Aquinas(?) come off pre pub and read them a bit more. Mainly on St. Thomas because he was a fairly decent apologist(from my understanding) and would like to see how he dealt with some of the people he battled with in his day.

Also, a philosophy professor told me Augustine was a platonist and Aquinas being an Aristotilian(?) and seeing these connnections.

I wish they would come out with more of Packer's books. I am puttingtogether a list of people I would like to see and it is growing.

Posts 150
Jim Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 13 2009 4:28 AM
Amen, Dave! Amen, Matt! Hooray for the "old guys!" - and for those who follow their example. I'm reminded of that song/prayer - "May all who come behind us find us faithful - may the fire of our devotion light their way! May the footprints that we leave lead them to believe, and the lives we live inspire them to obey!"

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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ...
Jim Dean

Posts 1692
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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 1:36 PM

Bible Study Magazine is not aimed at existing Logos users, though we welcome you all as readers. The goal is to get more people interested in and thinking about Bible study.

We do want to have a balance between "light and fluffy" (and thus easily-approachable) articles and more technical discussions. Didn't you see the introduction to Hebrew text criticism with regards to who kiled Goliath? Wasn't that pretty technical? But maybe you don't count that, since David was a "rock (and slingshot) star" too. :-)

My goal for BSM is to be like BAR: approachable and interesting to the person with little understanding of the field, while still useful and interesting to the expert, too.

One thing that's not our goal, and which has caused some confusion with our users, is being a paper tutorial for Bible software. We aren't trying to teach Logos BIble Software in BSM; in fact, we're not really trying to talk to our users much at all. You're here on the forums, subscribed to our NewsWire, and reading our blog. We want to reach the person you go to church with, who is carrying a study Bible and may be fuzzy on what the Septuagint is, who the early church fathers were, and concerned by the phrase "text criticism."

We want Bible Study Magazine to be something that person is willing to pick up (hence the cover feature on someone they've probably heard of), while still a magazine that introduces them to something they hadn't known (Septuagint, Greek word studies, church fathers, etc.). How are we doing at that goal?

Thanks again for all the feedback -- it's very helpful to us. And thanks for your patience; we're still in the first year!

-- Bob

 

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 14 2009 2:52 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Didn't you see the introduction to Hebrew text criticism with regards to who kiled Goliath? Wasn't that pretty technical? But maybe you don't count that, since David was a "rock (and slingshot) star" too. :-)

GROAN !

Bob Pritchett:
My goal for BSM is to be like BAR
Please, NO !  The archaelogical types don't like BAR.  They feel that it is not honest.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 452
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 4 2009 2:45 PM
I would love to see more content. :) That has been my only complaint. Additionally I think a reader's submission section. There are, I have heard, over 500 different English translations. I think it would be awesome if each BSM had an article about a specific translation, same format each time, stating how we got it, strengths and weaknesses. I read the article on translations a few months ago and it was great, but there are just so many translations out there. all about Christ, David Buckham

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 5 2009 1:03 AM

Matthew C Jones:
Me too.    I subscribe to Morris Proctor's e-mails and read his tips on the blog. I learn something new every single time but they are of course focused on the inner workings of the LOGOS software. I would love for the magazine to deal specifically with available RESOURCES like you say. Still, I am generally pleased with the current content and frequently find myself talking with others about it.

I agree with this. One of the things that I think the magazine could do is to show people the potential of studying the Bible using their computer. I was talking to a friend the other day and she had no clue what Bible software was (despite being a long term Christian).

On the other hand, I think the trouble with going too technical is that BSM starts to become another theological type journal. If BSM became something like that, then the question would have to be asked if BSM offers something that the existing journals don't offer. Personally, I think the focus of BSM is pretty good. It is main stream, yet there are teasers to get people to go further and deeper.  If you want to go further and deeper, then there are a plethora of other materials out there. Perhaps BSM could review some of these other resources for people who want to take something in BSM to another level?

Posts 106
Rob Suggs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 5 2009 12:43 PM

I agree with many of the sentiments here. As a former editor of a Christian magazine with 80,000 circulation, here is my feedback:

1) Much less fluff, as some have observed. I'm  not that interested in how major league baseball players or Hollywood stars study the Bible. I had to do those articles, too, but in this case, I really don't think it's what our readership wants. The Bible itself is the celebrity here.

2) Improve the appearance. In magazines, this is critical. The David-Goliath art (peg men, basically oversized icons) was a little embarrassing given such a wonderfully visual topic. I'm looking at another article entitled, "God's Right Hand Woman." There is no art at all, despite the possibilities. There is a great deal of biblical art over the centuries, all of which is public domain. Christian History magazine and Discipleship Journal (both, alas, no longer with us) had beautiful presentation. Out-source graphics if need be, it's not a budget killer.

3) Use more articles that really get into the dynamics of Bible study. A number of features have already done this. I'm always a sucker for the breakdown on a particularly difficult or controversial passage. Don't be afraid of being technical; this is not a grocery store checkout counter magazine. You're preaching to the choir.

4) Headings (Weird but Important: Greek Study without the Greek) are inspired. I love the tone of these.

5) If you really like rubbing shoulders with the celebrities, do a series like, "The Passage That Changed My Life." I think there has been an anthology with that theme, but whatever... Brainstorm series you'd personally like to read: "Passages I'm Not Prepared to Preach." "My Favorite Sermon Outline." "Underrated Bible Passages." I like the church fathers segment a lot. That's an example in which many of us probably have that quotation somewhere in Logos, but you encourage us to use the Church Fathers by showing us a highlight. 

6) I know you don't want it to become a theological journal, but "journal lite, with pictures" seems like the right direction to me. Err on the side of substance rather than breeziness.

Posts 206
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2009 5:41 AM

I would like to have a dedicated Logos tutorial in each of the issue, like advance search using graphic query...etc.

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2009 10:01 AM

Steven Yu:
I would like to have a dedicated Logos tutorial in each of the issue, like advance search using graphic query...etc.

I'm wishing for a semiannual supplement called something like "Logos Users Digest". This could be a BSM supplement just sent to subscribers, covering the use of Libronix, interviews with key staff members, information on upcoming releases, etc. It could include examples of using Libronix in sermon and lesson preparation, as well as different Bible study methods with Libronix. And an advanced topics section. Basically all the content everyone wants, that is outside the scope of BSM itself.

I know it's only a dream, but if it ever did happen, I'd be a subscriber for life.

Paul

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 49
Mitch Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2009 11:42 AM

Bob Pritchett:

One thing that's not our goal, and which has caused some confusion with our users, is being a paper tutorial for Bible software. We aren't trying to teach Logos BIble Software in BSM

Bob, count me in with the "confused" because there are enough articles from which I see illustrations via Logos Bible Software. When I explain/show the magazine to others I mention is how it (BSM) uses Logos in a number of its articles. Now, how did I get that in my head: mere coincidence or BSM strategy....I am confused.

On a seperate note: AMEN to LESS rock star type articles and MORE to actual Bible study methodologies. I would applaud Logos dedicating a section to Logos Bible users increasing/refining their program usage: 1) a great segway to new Logos converts from the printed medium; 2) Beneficial to existing software users.

Posts 67
Brian Whalen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2009 11:57 AM

If it is to really be a "Bible Study" magazine, then I believe Mitch is right with his last paragraph.  To stretch that just slightly, we can get Christian living commentary 50 different ways, but Bible Study, and its accompanying study of doctrine or theology are increasingly rare.

Brian Whalen

http://www.mcnazarene.com

Posts 2738
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 11 2009 6:36 AM

Any chance of getting this on the Amazon Kindle.  They have many magazines and it would open it up to a slightly wider audience.  I would prefer it as well, since I do most of my reading these days either on my PC via Bible software/browser and on my Kindle or iPhone version of Kindle.

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