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Chris Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 6:36 PM

fgh:
(As for Josephus, Jews consider him a traitor (he worked for the Romans, after all).

 

Being in league with the Romans constitutes an enemy of the Jews? Didn't the Jewish leaders conspire with the Romans to have Jesus crucified?

 

Was not Saul (Paul) a Roman, and a Jew, before he was called a Christian?

Consult: Paul's first letters...offered in Logos.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 12:35 AM

Re: Sacrifice from the Jewish Encyclopedia which I think is coming to a Logos near you ...

Substitutes for Sacrifice.

The importance attaching to the sacrificial laws was, as the foregoing anthology of haggadic opinions proves, fully realized by the Rabbis. Unable after the destruction of the Temple to observe these ordinances, they did not hesitate to declare that, in contrast to the sacrificial law which rejected the defective victim, God accepts the broken-hearted (Ps. li. 19; Pes. 158b). With a look to the future restoration, they call attention to the smallness of the desert offerings, while delighting in the glorious prospect of the richer ones to come (Lev. R. vii.). The precept concerning the daily offering is given twice (Ex. xxix. 38-42; Num. xxviii. 1-8), from which repetition is deduced the consolation for Israel in exile, that he who studies these verses is regarded as having offered the sacrifices (Pes. 60b; Lev. R. vii. 3). The same thought is based on "the torah of the sin-offering" and "the torah of the trespassoffering" (Lev. vi. 18, vii. 7; Men. 110a, b). Prayer is better than sacrifice (Ber. 32b; Midr. Shemuel i. 7; Bacher, "Ag. Pal. Amor." ii. 217). Lulab and etrog replace the altar and offering (Suk. 45a, b). Blood lost when one is wounded replaces the blood of the 'olah (Ḥul. 7b). The reading of the "Shema'" and the "Tefillah" and the wearing of phylacteries ("tefillin") are equivalent to the building of the altar (Ber. 15a; comp. Ber. 14b; Midr. Teh. to Ps. i. 2). As the altar is called "table" (Ezek. xlii. 22), the table of the home has the altar's expiatory virtue (Ber. 55a; Men. 97a). This was understood to have reference to "good deeds," such as hospitality shown to the poor (see Ab. R. N. iv.). The humble are rewarded as though they had presented all the offerings prescribed in the Law (Ps. li. 19; Soṭah 5b; Sanh. 43b; Pesiḳta Ḥadashah, in Jellinek, "B. H." vi. 52). Prayer in the synagogue is tantamount to offering a pure oblation (Isa. lxvi. 20; Yer. Ber. 8d). The students engaged everywhere in the study of the Torah are as dear to God as were they who burned incense on the altar (Men. 110a). The precentor ("sheliaḥ ẓibbur") is regarded as officiating at the altar and sacrificing (; see Levy, "Neuhebr. Wörterb." iv. 386b; Yer. Ber. 8b). In the Messianic time all sacrifices except the thank-offering will cease (Pes. 79a; Lev. R. ix., xxvii.). Whoever observes the provisions made for the poor (Lev. xxiii. 22) is regarded as highly as he would have been if during the existence of the Temple he had been faithful in making his oblations (Sifra, Emor, 101c). To entertain a student in one's house is an act of piety as notable as the offering of daily sacrifice (II Kings iv. 9; Ber. 10b). To make a present to a learned man (a rabbi) is like offering the first-fruits (Ket. 105b). Filling the rabbi's cellars with wine is an equivalent to pouring out the libations (Yoma 71a). In their extravagant, apocalyptic fancy, the haggadot even describe a heavenly altar at which the archangel Michael ministers as high priest; but his offerings are the souls of the righteous. In the Messianic time this altar will descend from on high to Jerusalem (Midr. 'Aseret ha-Dibrot; see Tos. Men. 110; comp. another midrash of the same tenor, Num. R. xii.).


Read more: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=35&letter=S&search=sacrifices#186#ixzz11ehZ3D7z


As for Josephus & Philo, St. Gregory of Nyssa wrote The Life of Moses which proves ... just about the same thing as any other writer who has written about Moses. Moses was a highly important man regardless of the detailed facts of his existence. The only real answer to your question is, given the lack of external evidence of a historical Moses, how do I establish that the Scriptures are factual in their description of Moses - and do so without using circular reasoning (the Bible is true because it says it is true is circular). Therefore I would look in Logos for references in commentaries on the Pentateuch or on Biblical interpretation on "historicity".

 

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 4:33 AM

Abi Gail:

fgh:
(As for Josephus, Jews consider him a traitor (he worked for the Romans, after all).

 

Being in league with the Romans constitutes an enemy of the Jews? Didn't the Jewish leaders conspire with the Romans to have Jesus crucified?

 

Was not Saul (Paul) a Roman, and a Jew, before he was called a Christian?

Consult: Paul's first letters...offered in Logos.

The Jewish leaders used the Romans to get what they wanted. Paul simply was a Roman. Josephus, on the other hand, not only worked for the Romans, he worked for those particular Romans that burnt Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple, murdered something like a million Jews, enslaved just about anyone still alive, forbade Jews to ever live there again, and changed the name of the country to Palestine in order to wipe out even the memory of Jews ever having lived there. I think I'd be pretty mad at him too if I were Jewish...

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:15 AM

I know that this isn't convincing from a Jewish perspective, but as Abi Gail hinted at, Jesus viewed Moses as historical.  That has always been the only argument that I've personally needed for confirmation of his historicity.

Posts 116
Chris Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 9:54 PM

                                                  I didn't find much in Logos. I found this site interesting.

 

                                                   http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/moses_pharaoh.htm

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