Sentence Diagramming

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Posts 128
Terry Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 23 2011 6:05 PM

Good to see you can use Wikipedia. By "original" I by no means meant to imply "first" as if only Alonzo Reed and Brainerd Kellogg had thought of diagramming sentences; few things can be directly pointed to as the very first. Others may have developed systems but none were as successful as R/K and that cannot be disputed. The R/K system was adopted at the end of the 19th century in American classrooms and had no serious rivals until it fell from grace with so-called modern teaching methods. As a tool for breaking apart a sentence and accounting for its parts it still has no rivals. Anything that gets a student into studying the structure of his/her target language is a good thing whether it be tree diagramming or something else. Why you would want to downplay the value this time tested system is a mystery.

It goes without saying it was originally designed for English. Of course it was, but that doesn't diminish the value of using their system for Greek or perhaps for other languages. The R/K system is the ONLY system that forces the student to build a scaffold accounting for every unit. Greek and English have parts of speech like verbs, nouns, adjectives, etc. and that's all that's needed to employ the R/K system. Again, how it's effectiveness is watered down because R/K was an English language system escapes me.

To say some other system allows "handling" of declension/conjugation is to me like saying they don't use footballs in the game of baseball. If one wants to work on declensions or conjugations then they'll need to do something else.

Posts 31354
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 23 2011 6:43 PM

Terry Cook:
Good to see you can use Wikipedia.

You guessed wrongWink My training includes a lot of linguistics. Linguists use one of several tree diagram techniques precisely because they account for all meaningful units in all languages.. I genuinely enjoy creating RK diagrams - especially on sentences that create serious difficulties. But I also recognize why linguistics replaced them 50 years ago. But I also recognize that Logos users as a whole are more familiar with RK than X-tree - and am therefore glad Logos supports both.

Terry Cook:
To say some other system allows "handling" of declension/conjugation is to me like saying they don't use footballs in the game of baseball. If one wants to work on declensions or conjugations then they'll need to do something else.

What I meant was that tree diagrams can be taken down to the morpheme level while RK is limited to the word level. As Logos limits it's clause analysis (tree diagrams) to the word level, it is not obvious that they can be carried further.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 452
Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 20 2011 4:44 PM

Terry Cook:

I have the zipfile for this product if anyone would like to have it. Drop me a note.

Yes please...I also went to the site and the link to DTS bookshop is dead; went to the DTS bookshop online and it doesn't seem to be offering this product anymore.  My e-mail is - IsaacJCephas at yahoo dot com

Also, I just downloaded some of your diagrams (hence my current interest - and why I will be doing some self study over the next few months - thanks) but have been made aware on another thread that the zip file was incomplete.  I have Galatians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, and James 5.  If there are more, I would be more than greatful.

God bless.

 

Posts 452
Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 20 2011 5:04 PM

Ha, I just couldn't search the forums properly (still can't), but I found the missing diagrams by going to your profile page and going through your old posts from there.

Would still love the zip of Koineworks.  Thanks again (for your patience re:redundencySmile).

Posts 128
Terry Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 24 2011 6:45 AM

Hello Is,

I hope the zip file is attached. Been having some troulbe with Internet connection as of late, I think because of an old, tired wireless router. If it doesn't work I'll repost when I get my connectivity issues resolvd.

The tools in the KoineWorks zip are minimal and just for beginners. The real value is a short PDF that helps the beginner understand the basics of the Reed/Kellogg diagramming tool.

Sentence diagramming is as fun, stale, exciting, dreary, enlightening, nerve-racking, head-scratching endeavor as one will ever undertake. I think the best advice anyone could give someone interested in diagramming Greek sentences (or for that matter English) is to come to grasp with English grammar and syntax. Learn what a direct object is and understanding the Greek accusative case is easier. Understand the function of an indirect object and one has a jump on learnig the function of the Greek dative case. To this end I recommend Sam Lamerson's book available on Amazon and elsewhere.

Terry Cook

sDg

 

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 24 2011 7:41 AM

Sorry Terry, I don't think the zip came across...

Posts 128
Terry Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 24 2011 3:49 PM

Hmm, this may be some type of user error? I click the "paper clip" used for attaching something and my only choice is "media." So, I experimented and  "attached" a jpeg and it downoaded just fine but the zip file does nothing.

So, something's wrong I just don't know what!

Terry

sDg

 

Posts 31354
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 24 2011 6:41 PM

I'm not sure what you're failing on:

1. click on the paper clip (as you said)

2. browse to the zipped file; click on open (second popup)

3. file name should appear in first popup

4. click on insert ... should create the link in the post - this may take a bit of time to upload.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 128
Terry Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 24 2011 7:18 PM

Tried again for the 4th time with same results. The file seems to be uploading ((I have successfully uploaded zip files to this forum B4); the green progress bar runs slowly from left to right until it gets all the way to the right and then in the popup window the message "Windows cannot display" occurs!

Terry

sDg

 

Posts 31354
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 24 2011 7:33 PM

The closest I've come to this error is when the zip had failed. It may not work but it might be worth trying re-zipping the files.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 10814
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 2:51 AM

Terry Cook:
Tried again for the 4th time with same results. The file seems to be uploading ((I have successfully uploaded zip files to this forum B4); the green progress bar runs slowly from left to right until it gets all the way to the right and then in the popup window the message "Windows cannot display" occurs!

Could the .zip file possibly be too large for the forum software?

Posts 128
Terry Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 3:59 AM

Tried re-zipping to no avail! The size of the zip file is 30.5 MB.

Terry

sDg

 

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 5:02 AM

Why don't you try a service like yousendit and post a link when you're done? It's free. The link won't last forever but it'll get the files into the hands of the people who want it right now.

Posts 128
Terry Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 5:13 AM

yousendit is $50 or a free trial which requires me to give information to them I'm not comfortable with giving. There is a "send it now" feature but it only allows for files to be sent to email addresses. Perhaps I could send the zipfile to you and you could see if you have better luck posting here?

Terry

sDg

 

 

Posts 452
Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 5:33 AM

...am appreciating your efforts Terry Smile

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 5:50 AM

Terry Cook:

Perhaps I could send the zipfile to you and you could see if you have better luck posting here?

Terry

 

I'll do it...I want to make sure I have them all anyway :)

 

rpavich at gmail dot com

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 5:50 AM

Terry Cook:

yousendit is $50 or a free trial which requires me to give information to them I'm not comfortable with giving. There is a "send it now" feature but it only allows for files to be sent to email addresses. Perhaps I could send the zipfile to you and you could see if you have better luck posting here?

Terry

sDg

http://www.sendspace.com/ doesn't require registration. The free portion of the service throws ads at those who want to download the file.

Posts 128
Terry Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 6:41 AM

Robert,

I have sent the KoineWorks zip file to you via yousendit. It's fairly large.

Terry

sDg

 

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 6:52 AM

Terry,

no problem....I'll let you know when I get it.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 25 2011 7:02 AM

I couldn't upload it...I got an error...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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