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Posts 767
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 4:04 PM

THE best thing about the iPad app is the book-like reading experience. It sounds like we are about to lose that. I don't know that anyone asked for the same display engine, we just wanted to be able to take notes and highlight. If we lose the book-like reading experience I think it will undo everything good about the app!

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 4:23 PM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:

THE best thing about the iPad app is the book-like reading experience. It sounds like we are about to lose that. I don't know that anyone asked for the same display engine, we just wanted to be able to take notes and highlight. If we lose the book-like reading experience I think it will undo everything good about the app!

The current Logos Beta has "book-like" reading so it will be available in the next release soon. I imagine this means that the next Ipad app will retain this ability.

Posts 767
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 4:32 PM

Great! I certainly hope so, I would miss that more than anything.

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 21 2010 12:06 PM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
THE best thing about the iPad app is the book-like reading experience. It sounds like we are about to lose that. I don't know that anyone asked for the same display engine, we just wanted to be able to take notes and highlight. If we lose the book-like reading experience I think it will undo everything good about the app!

When the developers talk about the display engine changing, they're only talking about the internals of the programming, they're not talking about any external interface or other things changing. Currently, the iPhone app requires the Logos server to 'translate' a normal Logos resource into a much simpler format that the app can display. The display engine will mean that this step is removed, and the app will be able to understand a native Logos file, without 'translation'. The change need have no impact on the user interface at all.

Once the change has been made, it should make it possible to have footnotes in offline resources (because they're included in the native Logos file), and perhaps with a little more tweaking correct the problem that some resources currently display incorrectly (such as interlinears, resources with complex tables, etc.)

Posts 767
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 21 2010 12:52 PM

Thanks Mark, now I get it. Would this make it easier to bring in highlighting and note taking as well?

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 21 2010 1:00 PM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
Would this make it easier to bring in highlighting and note taking as well?

I don't think it would make a difference with note-taking (except perhaps in displaying note indicators), but it would probably make highlighting easier (though still not easy).

Based on the way that Logos normally work in doing things incrementally, I expect v1.5 will have this major 'behind the scenes' change, plus perhaps one or two more visible changes (one or two out of highlighting, notes, interlinears, offline popups, better download options, etc.). It would be unlike Logos to bring out a new version that had many new features all in one go. But hopefully once the display engine is in place, whatever features get missed in 1.5 could be added to 1.6 and 1.7 (hopefully!).

Posts 1703
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 22 2010 7:07 AM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
THE best thing about the iPad app is the book-like reading experience. It sounds like we are about to lose that. I don't know that anyone asked for the same display engine, we just wanted to be able to take notes and highlight. If we lose the book-like reading experience I think it will undo everything good about the app!

We try to do as much code-sharing as possible between products and platforms, to save time and expense and ensure consistent behavior. 

Last year we didn't have time to port the display engine to iOS for the first iPhone app, so, as Mark points out, we served up a limited form of XHTML and used a simple pagination engine. (We didn't have pagination -- reading view -- in the core engine at that time. Only infinite scrolling.)

This year we got navigable pagination into the core desktop display engine (as shown in reading view), and have now ported that engine down to iOS. We will release this as soon as we can; the advantages are as Mark perceptively described: complex tables, richer formatting, etc. (Inline interlinear is possible, too, though that requires new UI to manage which lines are on.) 

The other advantage is that this display engine is "character position aware." Converting text to XHTML lost the bi-directional link between the screen position of a word and the underlying "offset". Using our core display engine means we retain this, and can now implement selection, copy, highlighting, notes, etc. and not only display them, but translate your "finger click" to the correct position as well. (We haven't gotten there yet, but I'm pretty sure the common display engine means we'll be able to display all of our complicated highlighting styles as well.)

NOTE: You will need to (re-)download books for offline use to take advantage of the core display engine; if you're reading the book over the air, we will still be sending just the XHTML "article at a time." There should be help in re-downloading your offline books without having to specify them manually.

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 22 2010 7:17 AM

Bob Pritchett:
if you're reading the book over the air, we will still be sending just the XHTML "article at a time."

Thanks for the clarification, Bob. One question: are you not concerned that having two display engines - one for over the air, one for downloaded resources is going to confuse the user, and made programming more difficult? When you have the new display engine, would it not be possible to have the server send the original Logos file in chunks, so that OTA resources can also be displayed using the new engine?

Posts 170
Bob | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 22 2010 7:21 AM

Bob

Thanks for this preview.  I would like to ask you if there are plans to create a new type of note file, one specifically tied to a book.  As this application is going to work it would be troublesome to import all of my note files when I would only be using those specific to the individual book I am reading. 

You could then attach the highlight info to the same note file for the purpose of import/export to the main app, or even leave them as meta-data within the book (which is where I assume current highlighting is stored).  

One extra suggestion, the iBooks app displays the existing highlights in a book as part of its table of contents, this feature would be nice in LOGOS.

 

Bob

Bob - 17" MBP quad 2.3GHz 4GB  and iMAC

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 22 2010 7:39 AM

Bob, this is really great news, and thank you for letting us in on what is going on!  We all want more than we have, but here is yet another request.  

I have over 1800 books.  I know that some would like to put all 1800 on their iphone, but I also know that some of us would like to have only a few ported over.  Would it be possible to make in the PC/Mac interface a place for us to list only the books that we would like to have on our iphone?  That way I can put, say the 50 or so that I use the most in the list, and then send them over.  Each time that I would go to logos, it would make sure that my books were updated and If I added or removed books it would add to or subtract from my phone.  This would also make it easier for us in that if we wanted all of our books on the Iphone, we could just press one button, however the rest of us would still have to add them one at a time, but by having this list we could just check a box for the resource and it would be added to the list and then added to our phone... still essentially a one button move to add the resource to the phone.  This would be very handy to me and I believe to many others as well.  Please consider this one!  Thank you and to all at Logos, a very blessed and happy Thanksgiving!

Kelly

Posts 767
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 22 2010 9:19 AM

Thanks Bob! One more question, will this impact the file size of the resources? I am one who wants every resource on my iPad and I hope the new file format will not be prohibitive.

Posts 235
Tom Geswein | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 22 2010 1:24 PM

Kelly Todd:
Would it be possible to make in the PC/Mac interface a place for us to list only the books that we would like to have on our iphone?

 

I like this idea!  I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but it would be very helpful.

"It seems our problems solve themselves when we look beyond us to those truly in hell."  -  Beyond Our Suffering - AILD

Posts 2758
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 26 2010 5:42 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Robert Mullen:
Seriously. The other bible readers out there are doing these things right now and they do them with small teams. I don't mean to be ungracious but I have come to expect a lot from Logos.

Ouch! :-)

The other Bible readers have larger teams, actually -- since their whole team is dedicated to mobile, and we have to share our (larger overall) team with Windows, Mac, web, etc. (And did I mention ours is free? :-) )

Actually the others don't have larger teams. If I am right Logos for iOS is being programed by 2 people at the time. Of the other major apps, only one that I know of has more than 2 iOS programmers working on a Bible app. Obviously I may have missed some, but I've had contact with the developers of what I call the big four apps. There is one that I do not put in that category as it is mostly just a Bible reader app, but it is the only other one that has a team that I know of.

Posts 483
Gary Butner, Th.D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 10:50 AM

I will be thrilled to see an early Christmas present from Logos.  :)

Posts 299
Robert Mullen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 4:32 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Ouch! :-)

The other Bible readers have larger teams, actually -- since their whole team is dedicated to mobile, and we have to share our (larger overall) team with Windows, Mac, web, etc. (And did I mention ours is free? :-) )

The next release isn't going to have everything you want, because the next release just gets the desktop display engine onto the iPhone for use with offline books. This is a major job, since our desktop display engine is very mature and powerful; but it's also essential to making everything else work. And once it's there, we'll have essentially the same display on all platforms. It's like we're behind...and then one day we'll jump way out in front...

Don't know how I missed this reply. I expected the first new release would not have all the features we want. I also expect and trust that the last sentence is true. I have been amazed at what Logos 4 does and set my expectations accordingly. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 1 2010 6:15 PM

Exegetical Gude would make me happy!

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 28 2010 9:41 AM

Though if you are successful at getting all of the platforms to support the same basic "engine", future enhancements will require more time/effort in order to maintain the compatability across all platfors. In short, more platforms = fewer enhancements.

Posts 218
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 3:55 AM

Well, hopefully the next Logos iOS update will include the following:

All your purchased desktop modules downloadable and available on the device.

Side by Side display of text and or resource with sync scrolling.

Notes capability that can be sync'd with your desktop app.

and many more helpful features.

 

Posts 5286
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 8:30 AM

Dennis Miller:

Well, hopefully the next Logos iOS update will include the following:

All your purchased desktop modules downloadable and available on the device.

Side by Side display of text and or resource with sync scrolling.

Notes capability that can be sync'd with your desktop app.

and many more helpful features.

 

Thats my dream Logos too, and I know it is doable, it;s just a matter if Logos wants to put in the time and effort to allow us to sync from our computers. Accordance will have this feature, even with yesterdays release without it, i see included is the ability to have Bible Knowledge Commentary, the NIV and New Jerusalem Bible. All items that Logos has not been able to offer owners of these resources. If we get enough people asking for it maybe desktop app sync can become a reality for Logos iOS but somehow I doubt it, since they have told us time and again it can't be done.

-Dan

Posts 218
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 9:06 AM

Like you I quit listening to the promises and the excuses and moved on.

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