Make Logos 4 capable of allowing different profile or user accounts in one family

Page 1 of 1 (15 items)
This post has 14 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Oct 14 2010 10:40 AM

This is a new situation for me as a user of Logos 4 as my wife's new computer is now capable of handling the software and she'd like to benefit also from this software we have purchased.

But then of course with the one account synchronization, it means that all my user documents would appear in her instance of the software and hers in mine. If one of us accidentally deletes material from the other, it's gone from the other user. If one changes preferences, the other's is affected.

I spoke to a tech from Logos who uncharacteristically was less than useful. He just kept on repeating that Logos 4 was made for one user. My inquiry was whether there was a work around and I take from his answer that it means no. Then I proposed to make a suggestion for software improvement. His reply was that it would probably be useless because "Logos 4 was made for one user". The suggestion: if your wife want to use it on her computer, she can purchase her own copy. Right.

I use Windows and can create different users who can customize settings and protect user documents. I use Outlook and I can set different profiles for different users with their own messages, contacts and preferences. I have email service with my service provider and I can set up different mailboxes for family members.

Should my wife purchase Logos 4 silver all over again in order to use it as well? Should she purchase the WBC set and all the other resources we have purchased over the years? I can't tell you for sure that this won't happen. What about my son? Should we get a third copy for him? This of course, was not an issue with L3. I appreciate the sync feature of L4 and greatly value all the innovations and improvements, but I submit that it seems more than reasonable to expect that more than one family member should be able to use the software in one household with the ability to create their own profile or alias without having to purchase the software anew.

Posts 19119
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 10:54 AM

Hi Francis, this is a reasonable assumption. But as you've discovered, Logos has decided to do the licensing with Logos 4 differently. The answer you got from the customer service person might have sounded unhelpful, but he was limited in what he could do to help you, because of this licensing restriction. The issue has been much discussed on the forums. Bob Pritchett gave a helpful and generous interpretation of the licensing rules for couples/families:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/341/3265.aspx#3265

In light of the fact that technically the EULA allows for only one user (even though Bob understands that people will install it on multiple machines for use by different family members), it would not be in the company's plans to create different user profiles like Windows allows. They'd have to change their entire philosophy about the product for that to ever happen. I'm not saying it couldn't ever happen. Users have asked for some sort of concessions. Maybe a way to do this would be to offer to allow family members to purchase a "second family member" license which would be drastically reduced from the full cost of repurchasing all the resources but would allow a second family member to have access to the same resources and have their own separate login to keep their user-generated documents and preferences separate. Logos has proven to be amenable to pressure from large numbers of users requesting something (nicely) and persisting in it. So it might be worth trying to gather interest among the user community for something along these lines.

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 11:12 AM

Thanks, Rosie.

As always, I have great respect for the reasonable, thought-through and cooperative feedback we get from Bob though it may not always amount to giving us exactly what we'd want.

I wonder if "members of one household" or "dependents" would work in a license agreement. My understanding is that a grown-up child who no longer lives at home does not fall under these categories (but I don't know the actual legal definition), but a spouse or younger child would.

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 11:38 AM

Ideally one would want a separate licence for a spouse.  Short of that I would think Logos would still stand to benefit as the spouse would probably desire different resources.  The only other rather undesirable option is for her/him to work offline by turning off the internet in program settings.  I think also that one spouse could use different color icons in notes, keep separate files, etc.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 11:44 AM

Francis,

As Rosie linked to Bob's statement, I'll just summarize.

Logos is a "one per customer" app. You bought it and you only own it.

BUT....

Bob has said that he sees no problem if a spouse wants to use it also....UNLESS the spouse is something like a Pastor who really should be buying his / her own copy....

The same with kids....they wanna use it? No problem...but it's a bit of a stretch to say that your 40 year old grown kids who live 2000 miles away are part of the household.. :)

Example: Myself and my wife both use my copy of L4. Neither of us are profession clergy, and she doesn't get on it but once in a while...it's just not her thing, but every once in a while, she'll look something up....

So...I live with changing the font back to what I like after her "Curlz" font choice and sync....or whatever....it's not a huge bother for me....I understand that in reality...Bob is doing us a favor by letting my wife use a piece of software that was purchased by myself, and intended that I would be the sole user.

It's kind of the "honor system" as it were...we know when we are violating it...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 12:01 PM

Thanks, Robert. I understand that. I am seeking to work out a practical way to do that.

Jerry, I have thought of that but it is a dangerous method. The moment the offline user accidentally goes online imagine what would happen to deleted note sets...

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 12:17 PM

Rosie Perera:
Maybe a way to do this would be to offer to allow family members to purchase a "second family member" license which would be drastically reduced from the full cost of repurchasing all the resources but would allow a second family member to have access to the same resources and have their own separate login to keep their user-generated documents and preferences separate.

I think Rosie that suggestion of a "second family member" is really great idea. I am not sure how Logos would implement that but I would recommend to look at this option. I would not use it much since I convinced 2 of my children to buy their version of Logos and my wife kind of prefers a traditional paper version of the Bible Smile. But it is a great idea. Yes

 

Bohuslav

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 12:32 PM

Francis:

Thanks, Robert. I understand that. I am seeking to work out a practical way to do that.

Jerry, I have thought of that but it is a dangerous method. The moment the offline user accidentally goes online imagine what would happen to deleted note sets...

With all the clamor about deleted notes I would suspect (And Hope) that Logos would change the way they are deleted soon.  As for the idea that second family members licence be offered at a substantial discount, perhaps it could be offered as a non-transferable licence.

 

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 1:45 PM

True enough, but it seems to me that the whole server sync deal is a concept that must be tweaked as it is being tested in the real arena of the users' needs. Hence, the whole topic is not unrelated to what has been discussed in other posts about being able to back up user documents in a way that give the user more control. If I am able to back up and restore an individual note set, then it is one of the avenues available to help with accidental deletions.

So, again what do we have in common among all these concerns: the administration of user files and the way the online sync works.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 2:18 PM

Jerry M:
Ideally one would want a separate licence for a spouse.

It took me years to finally convince my wife to use a computer for Bible study. Bob Pritchett's leniency in allowing spouses to use the same license was great until she started discovering what Logos 4 can do. I have Portfolio Edition and decided it was worth it to buy her a separate license to protect each other's data. I bought her the Bible Study Library and she loves having her very own Logos.

fyi: I have two adult daughters still living at home who do NOT use my Logos. I would view that outside of both the EULA and Bob's lenient application. I am still encouraging them to get their own and may buy it for them someday. Right now all base packages are 20% off.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 3:15 PM

Well, Matthew, I am happy for you that are were able to afford such an arrangement. Unfortunately, it's not the case for everyone. In my case, it's not that I don't want to, it's simply that I cannot. I have Silver and I can see how I could greatly benefit from getting up to Gold or Platinum in my ministry. But even for myself I cannot afford the upgrade.

Moreover, my wife is just as much of a student of the Word as I am. It would not be fair for me to offer her a smaller package than what I have (would I accept it the other way around) when she would have just as much use and ability for it.

This solution then proves to be not a solution at all for the less prosperous. Hmm, are we heading again to a class distinction between the haves and the have-nots?

Blessings on you.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 14 2010 5:09 PM

Francis:
This solution then proves to be not a solution at all for the less prosperous.

I don't want to sound like I am dismissing your circumstances. I understand hardship and tight finances. I've still got 9 kids living at home and I'm on a small fixed retirement income. (2009 AGI under $11K) I think Logos got half of my "mad money" last year.

I just keep making sacrificial choices where I can. My newest car is a 1998, oldest 1974. My house was built about 85 years ago - that is old in Oklahoma. We eat out at a pizza joint once a week. We don't watch tv or have an entertainment budget. I sold my collection of 28 fine guitars, some autographed by QUEEN, Supertramp & Genesis. I sold my woodworking shop. Just to purchase more Logos.

My wife's Bible Study package has all the same features of Logos 4 that mine does. She is just not interested in archeology, Near Eastern studies, Systematic Theology or any of the wonderful collections included in Portfolio Edition. (I know I got by cheap. Surprise  )

I think it would be very nice to be able to buy dual licenses for spouses that would allow access to one huge library of resources. But if your wife is also in seminary and planning on using Logos in an employment situation, that is where Bob said the two license requirement would kick in. I will never be able to afford two Portfolio licenses. We will just have to look it up in one computer and keep notes in two until something changes.
fyi: The Bible Study Library can be had for as little as a dollar a day.

Lastly: I know a certain lady that bought her husband a $65k Porsche Boxster for his birthday She likes sport cars too but Porsche would not give her two for the one price had she asked. Hopefully Logos can work something out for us regular guys living in the real world.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 55
Dianne Thornton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 24 2011 5:05 AM

At this risk of starting a fire storm here ... I'd like to see Logos focused on "getting material into the hands of people who need it" rather than the "bottom line".  I'm not trying to diminish the value of the software (or the value of the intellectual property).  But we're a family.  We all share the same hardback books that are on the bookshelves in my home.  There is no difference in that.  Logos - what is your primary goal?  

Posts 8659
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 24 2011 5:38 AM

Dianne Thornton:
I'd like to see Logos focused on "getting material into the hands of people who need it" rather than the "bottom line".

Having watched Logos as a company operate for the last several years I've witnessed them bend over backwards in every manner possible to assist.  The costs involved pay the bills, buy the computers, keep the programmers eating and keeps the programmers kids with clothes and shoes etc.  All this and providing free tech support forever.  Pretty phenomenal really.  

Dianne Thornton:
 I'm not trying to diminish the value of the software (or the value of the intellectual property).
I believe you.  :-)  I know you're just asking a question.  Believe me others have asked it as well.  But the answer is always the same, long term user experience and company decisions have always IMHO sided on the right side of godliness over profit.  Not everyone agrees I suppose, but that is my $0.02

Dianne Thornton:
But we're a family.  We all share the same hardback books that are on the bookshelves in my home.  There is no difference in that.
Robert's post above (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/24551/182395.aspx#182395) indicates as well what Bob's /Logos' policy is:  

Officially Logos is licensed to you only.  But because biblically you and your spouse are one - both of you can use it as a husband and wife.  Additionally as long as your kids are living at home and supported by you they too could.  

I think that breaks down if you and your husband both operate as ministers at different churches with church offices and your three kids* all work as ministers at other churches.  That's a recipe for five individuals needing five licenses.  

 

 

*Legal disclaimer: I am in no way implying that you have three kids.  But blessed you would be!

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 24 2011 5:45 AM

Dianne Thornton:
At this risk of starting a fire storm here ... I'd like to see Logos focused on "getting material into the hands of people who need it" rather than the "bottom line".  

Respectfully, this statement doesn't hold much water.

Logos is a company...if they do not turn a profit they cease to be a company....

Everyone who has a request draws a dividing line like this....if Logos doesn't just give the software away for free, then they don't care about getting it into the hands of the people..... :(

For myself, I'm VERY THANKFUL that Logos ALLOWS my wife to log on to my Logos install and use it at all....after all, it's not her copy and the licensing scheme is for one person only....and so my take on this is different, I thank them for being as flexible as they are.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Page 1 of 1 (15 items) | RSS