Shame on LOGOS

Page 1 of 3 (46 items) 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 45 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 249
Fred J. Morgan | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Oct 17 2010 3:55 PM | Locked

Church Dogmatics, 14 Vol Print Edition as Commented on on LOGOS Ad Page now $99.99 at CBD Christian Books
Distributers - Christianboosk.com

Logos Price Aprox $700 - Shame

Don't Blast me.... Especially if you do not know Public Domain - Printing Book cost - E-book Production.

Pray for the LOGOS managers and owners. All of them are nice guys. Pray they remember LOGOS is not just a business. Their users are Preachers of God's Word, Theologians and Teachers, Apologetist for God, and people in need of God's word. Their efforts is not just a business, it is a ministry.  What profit margin do you place on that.

God Bless.

Fred Morgan

Posts 648
Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 4:02 PM | Locked

That price does seem kind of high. Can anyone who actually knows how Logos goes about pricing explain (even though I'm sure it has been discussed before) how Logos' prices are more expensive than regular books?

With that said, Logos is a business, not a ministry. Just because it is run by Christians does not make it a ministry.

Posts 1417
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 4:07 PM | Locked

CBD is having a special sale on the set, that is why the price is so low. Amazon has the set for $626.00 which is very close to the logos price.

http://www.amazon.com/Church-Dogmatics-vols-Karl-Barth/dp/B001J9NJ7W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287356497&sr=8-1

If you notice here this is the original price at CBD $720.00

http://www.christianbook.com/church-dogmatics-14-volumes/karl-barth/9780567058096/pd/058093?item_code=WW&netp_id=333677&event=ESRCN&view=details

But here is the sale price

http://www.christianbook.com/church-dogmatics-14-volumes/karl-barth/9781598564426/pd/564426?kw=karl%20barth%20church%20dogmatics&event=PPCSRC&p=1018818&cm_mmc=Google-_-Academic-_-sets%20general-_-karl%20barth%20church%20dogmatics&gclid=CIvZicCB26QCFQULbAodflY6LQ

That is a great deal that you found, but the average price is what Logos is selling it for. There is no need to bad mouth anyone here. 

 

 

Posts 3809
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 4:08 PM | Locked

I'm not sure I fully understand.

If I go by the pictures on both Logos and Christianbook.com those versions of Barth's Church Dogmatics is $720 @ CBD and $700 at Logos. There seems to be another version of it at CBD for $99 but that is at a 90% discount. It could just as easily be CBD reducing the price below cost as it could be Logos raising the price above cost.

Posts 517
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 4:32 PM | Locked

Folks, lets take a breath here, Logos was talking about Berkouwer's Dogmatics NOT Karl Barth's Dogmatics. Berkouwer's Dogmatics is out of print and is available only by "print by demand" from Eerdmans and for what volumes are left in the pipeline sell for approx. in the high twenty's on Amazon.

Concerning Barth, the Hendrickson edition is the older first edition not the new greatly revised editon that sells for 349.99 in the paperback edition.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 4:46 PM | Locked

Then, what is Berkouwer’s Studies in Dogmatics (14 Vols.) - which is in the library of those of you who have Platinum and Portfolio?

Peace!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1417
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 4:53 PM | Locked

Big Smile Blessings in Christ alone...

I am not sure I understand your question Milford.

Posts 18727
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 5:03 PM | Locked

The edition selling for $100 on CBD (plus $50 shipping charge) is a reprint (by Hendrickson) of the first edition from forty years ago, not the current one:

"Hendrickson is reproducing the original 14-volume set edited by T.F. Torrance and G.W. Bromiley first published more than forty years ago by T&T Clark. The Hendrickson edition will contain the entire 14-volume set and all its contents, or the entire Church Dogmatics as it was originally published by T&T Clark. "

It looks like a loss leader since it's on sale from the regular retail price of $995. It's net yet released (coming Oct 20), so maybe this is just a short-time sale to encourage early buyers, the way Logos does pre-pub prices.

The current revised edition in paperback is selling on CBD for $720 and on Amazon (only on the secondary market) for anywhere between $527 and $1400. The new T&T Clark edition is nearly $1000. Logos's price seems well within the acceptable range, especially considering all the tagging work they need to do to get it into Logos format.

Besides, contacting a Logos sales rep by phone or email will likely get you a significant discount off the price offered on the Logos website. I won't tell you what I paid for it (and I didn't get it in pre-pub which would have been ideal), but I will say it was nowhere near $700.

Posts 18727
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 5:31 PM | Locked

Milford Charles Murray:

Then, what is Berkouwer’s Studies in Dogmatics (14 Vols.) - which is in the library of those of you who have Platinum and Portfolio?

That's a completely different set by a different author. Similar in that they are both on systematic theology (aka dogmatics). But Berkouwer and Barth are as different as Donald Bloesch and Millard Erickson. Some people like to own multiple books of dogmatic theology, to get different perspectives.

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 5:35 PM | Locked

This thread has a really bold title for such a reasonable explanation by the 2nd reply.  Maybe we can all learn something about message boards and conclusion jumping for the future.  I noticed some rather harsh key words too.

Either way I'm not sure this is effective communication. Snail

Posts 18727
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 5:45 PM | Locked

Paul Newsome:

This thread has a really bold title for such a reasonable explanation by the 2nd reply.  Maybe we can all learn something about message boards and conclusion jumping for the future.  I noticed some rather harsh key words too.

Either way I'm not sure this is effective communication. Snail

Thanks, Paul.

We must all remember, too, that these threads stay on the Internet forever. Even after Logos has addressed complaints people have, which they are very good about doing, any bad taste from people's initial experience lingers on the web and can affect other people's first impressions of the company.

And has been mentioned before, while Logos does provide a needed service to those who are in ministry, it is not a non-profit organization itself. It doesn't have donors supporting it as a ministry would have. It needs to make a profit to pay its employees, keep the servers running, etc. In short, it needs to charge fair market value prices in order to stay in business.

Posts 1653
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 5:58 PM | Locked

Paul Newsome:
 Maybe we can all learn something about message boards and conclusion jumping for the future.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I have found this suggestion out the hard way before. I have learned that it is usually best for me to frame my discontent into the context of a question because 99% of the time I learn something and it is not as I had thought.  Embarrassed

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 6:24 PM | Locked

Rosie Perera:
The edition selling for $100 on CBD (plus $50 shipping charge) is a reprint (by Hendrickson)

I think it is common knowledge among regular buyers of CBD specials that these reprint specials frequently have the original typesetting and blurry fonts. They do not rework them and they are not near as useful as a tagged, digital version.

Other times CBD dumps a title for a great loss to clear the shelves. The Complete Library of Christian Worship (8 Vols.) http://www.logos.com/products/details/5774 is offered by Logos for $199. CBD had the hardback version for similar retail prices. One day they decided to clear the shelves and offered each of the hardbacks for $5 each (a loss to them for sure.) They also offered the 43 volume Hermeneia CD-Rom (Libronix format) for $99 clearance, before the new set was released. (No, I missed out on that one. Crying ) There is no law or ethic that binds Logos to another company's pricing structure.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 3767
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 6:47 PM | Locked

Fred J. Morgan:
Don't Blast me....

Fred, have the above explanations changed your understanding of the situation at all?

Fred J. Morgan:
God Bless

Likewise to you.  Peace.

 

Dan

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 5613
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 7:18 PM | Locked

Fred J. Morgan:
Don't Blast me.... Especially if you do not know Public Domain - Printing Book cost - E-book Production.

Fred,

It's far cheaper to reprint an old public domain book than it is to digitally publish one.  To reprint, all one has do is scan the pages of an old book and use that to print copies, akin to a photocopier.  

HOWEVER, to digitally publish an old book, one has to scan the pages, then run text recognition on the pages, then the digital text has to be laboriously corrected and proof-read because text recognition is not perfect.  In fact, sometimes it's easier to type it all in from scratch (I think Logos does some of this), often with two separate typists whose work is then compared to catch errors.  When that is done, Logos isn't finished, because all Bible references need to be tagged, then all cross references need to be tagged, then the layout is reworked to match the original work and make it visually appealing.   Then, the digital book needs to be tested and proof-read again.

Furthermore, the Logos edition of Barth's Dogmatics is still under copyright by T&T Clark (part of Continuum now) because it's a revised translation (from the German), and it's reformatted, and they've provided English translation of other languages (Greek, Latin, Hebrew and French) with the original alongside.  Because T&T Clark holds the copyright, they are the ones setting the price in this case--not Logos.

I commend Logos for what they are doing.  I find some of the PD resources to be too expensive also, but that's the nature of the technology.   But I wouldn't assign shame to them for this.  Far from it. 

If anything, a kindly worded letter to the copyright holder (T&T Clark/Continuum) suggesting they lower their prices might be a better ploy.  Though I wouldn't count on it, since publishers are struggling with both the economy and the falling demand for paper books.

(Edited to remove inaccurate statements)

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 6498
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 8:08 PM | Locked

If  you notice Christian book is giving you a sale price now, but it's originally $720: http://www.christianbook.com/church-dogmatics-14-volumes/karl-barth/9780567058096/pd/058093?item_code=WW&netp_id=333677&event=ESRCN&show_all_cr=1#customer_reviews

The Logos set is $699.95: http://www.logos.com/products/details/2607

I do agree that logos sells some volumes way too expensive.  I read a comment somewhere, I can't seem to find it, that John Butler's pre-pub on Hebrews-Revelation volume has a Logos price tag of $34.95 when other softwares already have it and are selling it for $15 bucks and the print edition for $16.99 because the retail is $25 bucks everywhere else for the whole Hebrews-Revelation volume.  So I wonder where in the world did logos get a suggested retail price of $146.25 on a volume that's basically just outlines with some comments in between.  Anyway, other than that, I'm happy with what I've got.  Plus, I have no use for Karl Barth's dogmatics anyway, so I'm not gonna worry about the price.

Posts 116
Chris Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 8:15 PM | Locked

Douglas Alvarenga:
I have no use for Karl Barth's dogmatics anyway, so I'm not gonna worry about the price.

 

                                                        That was blunt!!! Stick out tongue It made me giggle. Stick out tongue

Posts 6498
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 8:34 PM | Locked

LOL...sure, blunt but not mean.  I hope nobody gets their feelings hurt...Smile

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 8:50 PM | Locked
 

Douglas Alvarenga:
If  you notice Christian book is giving you a sale price now,

Yeah, I noticed. But you'd have a long wait searching the whole set and organizing your results. Say, 3 years? Tongue Tied

Douglas Alvarenga:
I have no use for Karl Barth's dogmatics anyway, so I'm not gonna worry about the price.
Whisper

I'd like to be able to criticize Barth more accurately. So I do have an interest in buying his dogmatics at a cheap price. He was one of the last century's more influential theologians, like him or not.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 6498
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 9:09 PM | Locked

Good for you Matt! Like I said before and so say I now again, I have no use for Barth and don't really care to criticize him.  I'm the "more practical" type of preacher.  I'd just rather read my Bible and criticize Jesus or Paul more accurately than read Barth's work and criticize him.   To me Jesus and Paul are the best theologians out there compared to a mere human being like Barth, even if he's considered to be "last century's more influential theologian." Don't get me wrong, I got nothing against him, but I have better and more important things to focus on than Barth AND 700 bucks or 99 bucks to save that I could spend on other things...Wink In the end, Barth is not a salvation issue...so it doesn't matter whether you know all about him or not...Big Smile...but, but...if it's important to you, I respect that.  I hope Logos can offer it cheap during the 12 Days of x-mas sale. Yes

Page 1 of 3 (46 items) 1 2 3 Next > | RSS