Shame on LOGOS

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Posts 1417
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 9:33 PM | Locked

The Lord blesses each one of us with the desire to fulfill our calling. Some are evangelist, teachers, preachers. Some have the desire to search out historical theology, some have the desire to just focus on the word. Both callings are needed in the Church. We need teachers to make timothy's we need evangelist to bring potential timothy's to the church. There a many callings the Lord uses each one of us. All glory to God and his individual work within each of us. 

Some desire to read Augustine, Calvin, Barth along with Jesus, Paul, John, and Peter

Some desire to read only Jesus, Paul, John, and Peter.

Praise God that he worked through Calvin, and Barth and we can glean from them. We would have no Calvin without Paul. 

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 9:36 PM | Locked

Well said.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 117
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 10:05 PM | Locked

Blair Laird:
We would have no Calvin without Paul. 
 

I don't think it's fair to blame Paul for Calvin's theology. Stick out tongue

Posts 488
Brian W. Davidson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 10:53 PM | Locked

Todd Phillips answered the original post very well. How about we just let this thread die (i.e. enough already).

Posts 116
Chris Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 11:01 PM | Locked

Brian Davidson:

Todd Phillips answered the original post very well. How about we just let this thread die (i.e. enough already).

      Are you an aspiring MVP?   Is there something that violates the guidelines? ... Or do you just have a headache?  Big Smile

Posts 1417
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 11:02 PM | Locked

Luap:

Blair Laird:
We would have no Calvin without Paul. 
 

I don't think it's fair to blame Paul for Calvin's theology. Stick out tongue

I needed that laugh Big Smile Maybe some of his writings Wilted Flower

 

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 11:44 PM | Locked

Abi, I think Brian's advice was sound; he doesn't need to be an MVP to speak good sense. However, I did enjoy the crack about Calvin. Smile

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 116
Chris Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 17 2010 11:59 PM | Locked

Jonathan Burke:
I think Brian's advice was sound; he doesn't need to be an MVP to speak good sense.

Smile Just because someone is not interested in the discussion, They don't have a right to try and shut it down. I see no violation of the prime objective. No one was shouting or preaching. There are other threads to read...other forums to visit, or ..if all else fails, there is a power switch on the computer. Smile 

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 12:02 AM | Locked

It's cool Abi, I didn't see anyone trying to shut down the discussion or censor anyone, and it's not because Brian isn't interested in the discusion (what are we discussing now anyway, since the original question has been answered?).

Someone made an embarrasing mistake which involved a rather unfortunate accusation against Logos which turned out to be untrue. I believe Brian is being very considerate to the two parties concerned, to suggest that we just let this thread drop.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 401
Timothy Ha | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 1:53 AM | Locked

Jeremy:
That price does seem kind of high. Can anyone who actually knows how Logos goes about pricing explain (even though I'm sure it has been discussed before) how Logos' prices are more expensive than regular books?

I also want to re-read the often quoted statement from Logos.

Producing tagged Logos e-books are, of course, much more expensive, but selling e-books cost less for the company.  No warehouses, just web servers and bandwidth.

So I guess the high price for Barth's resource is due to the little number of possible buyers...

JesusChrist.ru - Russian Christian Portal, with free Bible software; Timh.ru - blog

Posts 401
Timothy Ha | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 1:56 AM | Locked

Brian Davidson:

Todd Phillips answered the original post very well. How about we just let this thread die (i.e. enough already).

Oops, I didn't follow the thread till this point.  Sorry, for pushing it up.

JesusChrist.ru - Russian Christian Portal, with free Bible software; Timh.ru - blog

Posts 18704
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 2:45 AM | Locked

Jonathan Burke:

Someone made an embarrasing mistake which involved a rather unfortunate accusation against Logos which turned out to be untrue. I believe Brian is being very considerate to the two parties concerned, to suggest that we just let this thread drop.

OK, MVP here, stepping into a role which is not part of the MVPs job description but we do sometimes try to protect Logos's reputation because we too are users who like Logos. (And yet we also voice our criticisms too, in positive, constructive ways.)

The reason I would like to see this thread dropped is every time someone posts on it again (which I realize I'm doing now) it pops back up again into the recent threads and affects newbies' opinions of Logos. Many people just open a thread and read the first post without reading the follow-up to discover why it was invalidated. And then they add their agreement at the bottom of the thread (as someone already has done), and the issue stays live.

I'm all for joking around about Calvin's theology being blamed (or not) on Paul. But let's do that on other threads that won't unfairly present Logos in a bad light. (And I'm not just trying to protect Logos at all costs or shut down negative discussion. I'm all for letting threads that have valid criticisms of Logos go on and on ad infinitum until they address the problem.)

Posts 255
Pat Flanakin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 6:55 AM | Locked

SLIPPERY SLOPE WARNING FOR THIS THREAD:

When you begin to question the profit margin of a business, you naturally solicit questions of how much is a Biblical profit margin correct?  I mean, isn't the understanding of God's Word paramount here and in all circumstances?

I would suggest that this subject be dropped and leave the gleaning of the field, or not, to the management of Logos and its leadership and their relationship with the Lord.

I would argue that there is much more in the Word concerning our behavior vs. a business's since a business entity cannot be a Christian; therefore, those Christians in the organization are commanded to:

Eph. 6:5-7 (ESV):

5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ;  6 not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,  7 with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men,


I do not think we need to worry about whether Logos is being greedy...just do not buy what they are offering if you cannot afford it.  Men for years in ministry did fine without Logos and they can do fine now.

Posts 249
Fred J. Morgan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 11:18 AM | Locked

To Blair

CBD as a business offers as many as 5 Catalogs a month according to your classification (Preacher, Youth Minster, Homes Schooler, etc.,) In these catalogs they use the Sales approach to advertise. The SALE PRice in the Current Catalog dose list suggest retail just as LOGOS Does. The difference is that in the SALES
Catalog issued twice a year they will have products like this $99.set for $49..   You can, And I have done this, use a three onth old catalog and order with the SALE price. In actuallity, this is their price they sale sets for. I have NEVER seen any set list even within%75 of retail at CBD if it has been listed as a sale.....   CBD really does sale these product year round at or near this price. In three months it may go up to $150 dollars, but I will personally tell you they will never go much more than $50 TO $75 Dollars over a Sale price and will drop a SALE price by half in their inventory reduction catalog.

CBD is a company, they are CHRISTAIN BASED. THEY MAKE A PROFIT and yes anytime anyone sells at DISCOUNT INTENTIONALLY to Christian who evalgalize, spread God's word, offer apologetics they are a MINISTRY.   I Consider SCROLL Publishing as a ministry also along with a few other publishers, some of which sell at near cost.......................................................

Posts 373
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 11:45 AM | Locked

I have to chime in here because I am a capitalist pig.  I am proud of Bob and the gang for making tons and tons of cash.  I wish the Pritchett families could afford a house on each continent and all the amenities of being filthy stinking rich that providing such a valuable service and product as Logos can be afforded.  

I get Logos and they get vacation homes and BMWs.  That sounds fair to me.  

Same thing with the owners of CBD.  If it weren't for CBD I wouldn't have Robertson Nicol's "Expositor's Greek Testament" for the past 15 years and a slew of other fantastic books that are just about only available through them and them alone.  May God richly bless them and make them filthy rich, if they're not filthy rich already.  

May cooler heads prevail! 

Wilson Hines

Posts 3667
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 11:47 AM | Locked

Rosie Perera:
I would like to see this thread dropped

Yes +1

Grace & Peace,
Bill


Asus GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
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Posts 249
Fred J. Morgan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 12:01 PM | Locked

To Pat

I somewhat agree, however read LOGOS history. They advertise themselves as a Christian company. I don't know where you shop for your Christian supplies. maybe you pay the $29.99 for a Christian DVD at the local Bible book store, I myself will purchase from a less expensive source. However, If I know of a Christian run bookstore, which I do, especially Mennonite, Charity and Believers bookstore, I usually see them making a profit without using the "Christian Logo" to rip people off which many mainline Christian stores do.  I have spoken to many of the LOGOS team in the past. They seem to be good people. I am concerned at the prices that this may not be the case.

What you are saying seems to be turning your back due to your thoughts of the product, though I pray I am wrong.

If a Christian; Church, Person, Group or Company falls into sin, they sould be approached just as anyone in the shurch who sins whould be. Greed is a sin, it is a form of idolaty to the world.

15 "If your brother sins against you,a go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’b 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

ALSO Gal 6:1, 1Jn 5:16

 

Since you quoted here are mine:

2 Peter 2:2 And many will follow their debauched lifestyles.8 Because of these false teachers,9 the way of truth will be slandered.10 2:3 And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words.

Col 3:5 So put to death whatever in your nature belongs to the earth:2 sexual immorality, impurity, shameful passion,3 evil desire, and greed which is idolatry.

Luke  12:36 he said to them, "Watch out and guard yourself from37 all types of greed,38 because one’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."

Mark 7:20 He said, "What comes out of a person defiles him. 7:21 For from within, out of the human heart, come evil ideas, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 7:22 adultery, greed, evil, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, pride, and folly. 7:23 All these evils come from within and defile a person."

These are only some on GREED along and not on doing wrong to other.

Since I do like these guys and believe they are Christian, I must speak out reguardless if others feelings.. Some FEELING seem to be gentile but are not really what we are told to do.

In Love and Charity

Fred

==============================================================================================

To Christian who evalgalize, spread God's word, offer apologetics they are a MINISTRY.   I Consider SCROLL Publishing as a ministry also along with a few other publishers, some of which sell at near cost.......................................................

Posts 249
Fred J. Morgan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 12:18 PM | Locked

Dear Rosie,

I have read many of your post and enjoy them and know of your loyality to LOGOS. I to am Loyal to my favorite
Bible Program LOGOS 4. I have shopped at CBD for year and have anssered in another post how they practice. If I didn't make it clear pick up a
Harbor Freigh Catalog to get the idea in one catalog. You will find the same product with one of these catalogs listed with two to three time, one will have a price %90 below the other, thus making the product look great to buy. This too may be misleading and Greedy from this Christian company. Playing sales game is how they operate. The difference is CBD does this using different Catalogs and locations thus when you find the Cheap one you impulse buy.

YES.... I have wrote CBD as one Christian to another stating that this is sinful.

As for Fair priceing compared to Hardbound.   It is not that hard to make E-Publications. Especially if you designed the format. THESE BOOKS are not in copywrite. If you search LOGOS you will find quite a few books in which they actually show you OLD Book. This is because these aer the Books which WERE OCRed to make the E-Book.

I am sorry if you disagree, but it does not cme anywhere near the cost of hardbound book publication. Not to mention Storage price, Distibution Prices and Advertising to a wide market. Logos has none of these problems. They have a captive audiance, so to speak. Don't let loyality make you an advocate of defending wrong against right.

Love in Christ, and continue to Blog - Love your postSmile

Fred - v (Jeff) who is still waiting after ten years to an Anabaptist Library on Logos.

Posts 18704
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 12:20 PM | Locked

Fred J. Morgan:
"If your brother sins against you,a go and show him his fault, just between the two of you.

What you are doing does not appar to be that, Fred. If you'd first brought up the complaint to Logos and been rebuffed by them, then I could see bringing your issue before the larger forum for debate. As it is now, you've riled up a bunch of people with no warrant.

Did you see the explanation that the cheaper version CBD is selling is an outdated edition? They are charging $720 for the current edition, which is more than what Logos charges.

Hallelujah for stores that choose to sell their products at a deeper discount for those in ministry. But I don't believe Logos has ever stated that as part of their reason for existence. Logos is a company run by Christians, though they do not publicize that in their marketing materials or their website. However one would make the assumption they are Christians based on how they conduct themselves in responding to customer dissatisfaction, and their very interest in publishing the kinds of materials they do. (However there are other known companies which publish Christian books or even Bibles which are not run predominantly by Christians, or at least maybe they were when they were founded but aren't anymore.)

I suggest you take your issue with this particular resource directly to Logos and see if they don't satisfy you with a better price than what is advertised on the website. Expecting them to come down to $100 or $150 on it would probably be unreasonable, though, given the discussion above, which you apparently skipped over. They do not offer the forty-year old first edition in their catalogue. If they did, I'm sure you'd be able to get that for much less than the current revised edition.

For those who don't like capitalism, go use free Bible software with public domain resources. There's plenty of it around. This edition of Barth is not in the public domain, so you won't be able to get it. But at least you'll be happy knowing you're being ethical, and you won't have to imagine that you're funding the developers having nice cars or houses. (Many of the Logos employees ride bikes to work actually. They don't appear to be overly rich to me. I've been there to visit and know several of them in person.)

Posts 1134
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 12:39 PM | Locked

BillS:

Rosie Perera:
I would like to see this thread dropped

Yes +1

Yes +1

 

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