Nicene Creed "We believe" or "I believe"

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 6:15 PM

Dan Sheppard:

Dominick Sela:
I should have said English translation of the Roman Missal....

Now I understand why the Empire was powerful for so long....they had Roman missals.

Or was that Roman missiles? Wink

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 18 2010 6:19 PM

Hendrik-Jan van der Wal:
At Amazon I came across another book with the title "WE Believe: Forty Meditations on the Nicene Creed".

An abbreviated version of Richard Maffeo's reflections (well 20 of them so far) are available here: http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/richmaffeo/

Posts 1
Peter Fischer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 4:26 AM

There's an excellent article about the opening of the Nicene Creed at: 

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7647

The original Greek is clearly "We believe" which as always been used in the Eastern Church.  The west, however, very early on changed this to the singular when translating to Latin "credo" because the the Creed was used as a 'baptismal confession.'  (There are also Latin translations using the plural as well).  Thus, the long history of the Western Church is a mix of singular and plural usage; but the original text was a plural confession from the gathered bishops (both in 325 and again in 381).

Peter

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 10:49 AM

Welcome to the forums Peter.  Smile  Very interesting article. 

Wow!  This is an old thread.  There is certainly no prohibition in bringing back an old conversation and this one has some very interesting information in it.  Question:

How would that research look using Logos/Verbum 6 and library resources?  Maybe you could start a more current thread with comments.

Posts 1
Jan Rogozinski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 6 2016 8:23 PM

The Greek text cited by Milkman pretends to quote  "The Nicean Creed of 325."  This is an egregious blunder.  There is no evidence regarding the Nicean Creed of either 325 or 381.  At the next council in 431, the fathers wanted to affirm the creed, so they say they searched for and found  a copy in the Patriarchal library.   I.e., there is no manuscript anywhere in existence that contains the text of the 325 or 381 text.

Every text since 431 has "I" and not "we."  The Greek (and Russian) Orthodox church says "I," and always has, as far as anyone knows.

I doubt anyone will read this.  Still, I will ask the quetion.  I am convinced that there is no ancient or medieval manuscript or any missal printed before 1950 that has "we" instead of "I" in the creed.  If anyone knows of one, please let me know. jan8142@gmail.com.  The second question is: Why do contemporary liturgists think they are more knowledgable and wiser than all the great theologians and saints that lived during the past 1700 years.  If something is not broken, why mess with it?

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James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 6 2016 8:32 PM

A bit of advice Jan. I suggest you edit out your email addy before you get spammed.

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Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 6 2016 11:10 PM

Jan Rogozinski:
I doubt anyone will read this.  Still, I will ask the quetion.  I am convinced that there is no ancient or medieval manuscript or any missal printed before 1950 that has "we" instead of "I" in the creed.  If anyone knows of one,

Welcome to the forums.

Wikipedia: Nicene Creed:
The churches of Oriental Orthodoxy and the Assyrian churches use this profession of faith with the verbs in the original plural ("we believe") form. The Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church use it with the verbs of believing changed to the singular ("I believe") form. The Anglican Communion and many Protestant denominations also use it, sometimes with the verbs of believing in the plural form but generally in the singular.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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