A Collection Rule

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Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 19 2010 11:05 AM

Ok I was watching the GREAT video's by Joe Miller found http://www.morethancake.org/2010/10/sermonpreppart1.html and he had a collection called Bible Studies. And for the life of me I can't find a rule that works and gets all my bible studies. The only bible studies I get to come in is the MacArthur bible studies. I know I have more then that. I looked on the wiki to see if any were there and there were not any on bible studies. Also when you look on the compare chart it has Biblical Studies section but that rule doesn't bring up any of those resources. Can one of you more advance users who may have this collection please send me the rule you used to create this collection please? Thanks! 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 19 2010 11:27 AM

Jerry the string I use is: Subject:Bible--Study and Teaching OR Bible--Study

You pick up a number of other resources with this you have to cull out by hand.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 19 2010 11:37 AM

Jerry,

I looked at the video you have linked and did not see where Joe created a collection called Bible Studies. I think you may be confusing Collections with Favorites here.

If you want to create a favorites folder for Bible Studies (or anything else you may want a folder for) I would suggest watching this video done recently by Mark Barnes on favorites. His demonstration and instruction is far more effective and useful than any explanation I could provide here.

 

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Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 19 2010 11:52 AM

Thanks Mark that seem to do the trick. 

Hey Fred I think you misunderstood what I was saying but I seem to have it now. Thanks

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 19 2010 4:35 PM

Mark A. Smith:

Jerry the string I use is: Subject:Bible--Study and Teaching OR Bible--Study

You pick up a number of other resources with this you have to cull out by hand.

Mark, your string is incorrect and could be very confusing to new users. And perhaps that's why you're picking up a number of other resources you need to cull out by hand.

The order of precedence rules are being ignored and that's your problem. The colon after a field filter name is the most tightly binding of all the operators you're using. Words separated by spaces have an implicit AND between them, and that's the next highest order of precedence. And OR has the least precedence. To override this order, you need to use quotes and parentheses.

So, you need to have quotes around any field-matching text that has a space in it, and parentheses around clauses with Boolean operators in them that you want to take precedence over the field filter, or you will get unexpected results. Since "Bible--Study and Teaching" is a subject that has spaces in it, you'd need to enclose it in quotes:

Subject:"Bible--Study and Teaching"

Otherwise it would match all resources with Subject:Bible--Study and which have the word and somewhere in the metadata and the word Teaching somewhere in the metadata. Coincidentally, that might end up finding what you want it to, but not for the reasons you think.

Secondly, the OR clause you've got floating out there at the end: are you intending it to be part of the Subject: field operator as well? If so, you'd need to write it as

Subject:("Bible--Study and Teaching" OR Bible--Study)

Again, coincidentally it might be working for you because the likelihood of "Bible--Study" being found in any field other than Subject is nil, and even if it were, you'd probably be glad to have those books added to your collection. But for what you're intending to do, your syntax is incorrect and could throw people off.

Finally, since "Bible--Study" is a substring of "Bible--Study and Teaching," the longer form is totally unnecessary in the rule, because the shorter one will pick up all resources that have the longer one as a subject. So your rule, if I'm understanding its intent correctly, boils down to:

Subject:"Bible--Study"

You would no longer strictly need the quotes since there's no space, but for clarity I would still put them because I'm never sure when Logos is going to ignore punctuation and treat it like a space (it doesn't appear to here, though it does ignore the punctuation in matching; titles with "Bible Study" in their subject will also be found).

One more thing: I'm not sure whether you have the AMG "Following God" Bible Study guides in your library, but if you do, they will be missed by your rule, because they don't have "Bible--Study" in their subject.

You'll either need to tag them all (e.g., BibleStudy) and add OR mytag:BibleStudy to your rule, or else add OR series:"Following God"

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 19 2010 6:03 PM

Rosie,

Actually as I look back through the results subject:Bible--study is sufficient.

The extras I had to get rid of had nothing to do with the syntax, but with the way Logos gave subjects to some of the resources. (I did try the syntax a couple of different ways, with quotes and bracketing, but since it made no difference in my Library I didn't worry about it.)

I'm sorry you weren't around to give the proper syntax when the question was first asked. You would have been able to save the time having to correct mine.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 19 2010 7:07 PM

At the risk of overkill, this works best for me (with a few false positives):

type:monograph AND (title:("bible study", "bible studies"), series:("bible study", "bible studies"), subject:("bible study", "bible--study")) ANDNOT (subject:(hermeneutic, interpretation, introduction), title:"how to")

My collection includes three main series: Explorer's Bible Study, Rasnake's Life Principles, and MacArthur's Bible Studies.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 4:23 AM

Mark Barnes:

At the risk of overkill, this works best for me (with a few false positives):

type:monograph AND (title:("bible study", "bible studies"), series:("bible study", "bible studies"), subject:("bible study", "bible--study")) ANDNOT (subject:(hermeneutic, interpretation, introduction), title:"how to")

Mark

I have 19 resources in my Library by M. S. Mills, most of which he calls "Study Guide", but Logos types 16 of them as "Bible Commentary". Thus, your syntax misses these. They actually read like very light-weight commentaries, so I am not sure how they should be classified.

This syntax also missed study guides by Bill Bright most of which have subjects listed as "Study Guides--Biblical"

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 5:41 AM

Mark Barnes:
type:monograph AND (title:("bible study", "bible studies"), series:("bible study", "bible studies"), subject:("bible study", "bible--study")) ANDNOT (subject:(hermeneutic, interpretation, introduction), title:"how to")

There is some redundancy as subject:"bible study" is equivalent to subject:"bible--study" and you can also express it as subject:bible-study

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 6:23 AM

So therefore:

type:monograph AND (title:("bible study", "bible studies"), series:("bible study", "bible studies"), subject:("bible study", "Study Guides--Biblical")) ANDNOT (subject:(hermeneutic, interpretation, introduction), title:"how to")

Which will remove the redundancy and add Bill Bright's (which I don't have). Neither do I have Mills', so I've left those out, but it would be easy enough to add. I tend to view Bible Studies as asking questions, whilst commentaries as providing answers.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 8:51 AM

Mark Barnes:
I tend to view Bible Studies as asking questions

Bill Bright would fit here.

Mark Barnes:
whilst commentaries as providing answers

Mills does not really fit either of these criteria. I suppose he is more on the level of a survey or introduction. I don't know where I got them, maybe in one of the Christmas Library Builder sets.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 11:26 AM

Jack Caviness:

Mark Barnes:
I tend to view Bible Studies as asking questions

Bill Bright would fit here.

Mark Barnes:
whilst commentaries as providing answers

Mills does not really fit either of these criteria. I suppose he is more on the level of a survey or introduction. I don't know where I got them, maybe in one of the Christmas Library Builder sets.

I really wouldn't be too concerned with categorizing resources in an absolutely impeccable manner such as one might expect in a well-run library.  The object of collections is to enable finding particular resources and searching groups of resources.  I have a few works which don't fit neatly into some of my categories such as The Masorah of Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia and Understanding BHS: A Manual for the User which aren't texts or grammars or lexica but which might well be placed together with my OT texts.  If it works for you then it's fine. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 11:45 AM

George Somsel:
I really wouldn't be too concerned with categorizing resources in an absolutely impeccable manner such as one might expect in a well-run library.

I agree with your basic premise. But resources that are not in any collection are usually not included in useful search results. In my Library, the 250 or so resources that are not in any collection are mostly ones that I have not examined sufficiently to determine their content and type.

BTW: Your current avatar is very pretty. There is a reason we call them GRANDchildren, or even GREAT-GRANDchildren in my case. Smile

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Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 12:15 PM

Thanks so much everyone for ALL your help and input! Its been pretty helpful.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 3:48 PM

Jack Caviness:
BTW: Your current avatar is very pretty. There is a reason we call them GRANDchildren, or even GREAT-GRANDchildren

Not bad for a 40 year old!

Dave
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 4:03 PM

Dave Hooton:

Jack Caviness:
BTW: Your current avatar is very pretty. There is a reason we call them GRANDchildren, or even GREAT-GRANDchildren

Not bad for a 40 year old!

Early start? Big Smile

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 7:08 PM

Jack Caviness:
Early start? Big Smile

George has been 40 for a number of years ...

Dave
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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 20 2010 7:22 PM

Dave Hooton:

Jack Caviness:
Early start? Big Smile

George has been 40 for a number of years ...

A base canard.  I will be 39 on my next birthday.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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