Apostolic Fathers Compare Greek/English in Search Results

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Posts 6
Ben Martin | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 11 2010 8:21 PM

When performing a morphological search in a Bible, such as the ESV, if I show the results as Verses (instead of Aligned of Analysis), I get the option to display another resource side by side. This is useful if I search the NA27, I can put the ESV or NASB beside and quickly see the English text of the verse (as my Greek is not so good).

If I perform the same search in the Apostolic Fathers (Holme's edition), I get no such option to allow me to compare another resource side by side, which is very frustrating. I am able to search in Lake's edition and get English results, but I would prefer Holme's as that is more recent. Additionally, when viewing Holme's edition in English, there is no interlinear button such as there is when viewing Lake's.

Is there a way around this to show search results for Apostolic Fathers in both Greek and English? Is that intended functionality with only being able to view the interlinear tab for Lake's edition and not Lightfoot's or Holme's?

Posts 89
Brian Leathers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 11 2010 10:24 PM

This might be of some interest to you:http://www.logos.com/product/6091/the-apostolic-fathers-greek-english-interlinear

Posts 6
Ben Martin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 12 2010 4:35 PM

I had seen that resource, but it is in prepub and looks like it won't be completed until mid next year.

What I really want it to be able to compare search results in the greek text side by side with english results, as I can with the NA27 and ESV, for example.

For a piece of software that costs many hundreds of dollars, you would think logos could open another resource beside your search results and display content from that using the verse references returned from the original search.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 13 2010 9:33 AM

Ben Martin:
Is there a way around this to show search results for Apostolic Fathers in both Greek and English?

I have (sort of) found two:

1) If you prioritize the English translation above the Greek text when you search in Greek, you can get the translation by hovering above the reference. Though it will cover [part of] the Greek, so it's mainly useful for checking the meaning of words you don't know or remember, not for in depth comparisons.

2) If you save the search results as a Passage List and click Add Version, you do get the option to add the English translation. However, when I try that in Mac, either nothing happens at all, or the text simply switches to English, without even the option to switch back. There seems to be a bug here. I would be interested to know if it works in Windows.

I second your request, though. If we have both Greek and English versions, we should be able to see search results in both, whether it be the Bible, the Apostolic Fathers, Philo, Josephus, or anything else (like the Patrologia, when it is published). 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 13 2010 11:21 AM

Ben Martin:
If I perform the same search in the Apostolic Fathers (Holme's edition), I get no such option to allow me to compare another resource side by side, which is very frustrating. I am able to search in Lake's edition and get English results, but I would prefer Holme's as that is more recent. Additionally, when viewing Holme's edition in English, there is no interlinear button such as there is when viewing Lake's.

That's an excellent suggestion. It would be very helpful, and shouldn't be all that tricky to implement.

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 13 2010 11:34 AM

fgh:
2) If you save the search results as a Passage List and click Add Version, you do get the option to add the English translation. However, when I try that in Mac, either nothing happens at all, or the text simply switches to English, without even the option to switch back. There seems to be a bug here. I would be interested to know if it works in Windows.

Same behavior in Windows.

It's definitely a bug. I'll go report this in the Windows Beta forum. (EDIT: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/27273.aspx )

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 13 2010 1:43 PM

Kevin Becker:
It's definitely a bug. I'll go report this in the Windows Beta forum.

I have now reported it in the Mac forum as well: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/27279.aspx.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 6
Ben Martin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 14 2010 12:09 AM

Thanks for the pointers. The passage list idea would be a good work around once the add version bug gets fixed.

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 5:15 PM

fgh:

1) If you prioritize the English translation above the Greek text when you search in Greek, you can get the translation by hovering above the reference. Though it will cover [part of] the Greek, so it's mainly useful for checking the meaning of words you don't know or remember, not for in depth comparisons.

 

I have tried this in the latest beta and it does not work. I even put Apostolic Fathers: English Translations as the highest resource in my priorities and I do not get English when I hover. Does this actually work, what am I doing wrong?

Posts 27222
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:04 PM

Dominick Sela:
I have tried this in the latest beta and it does not work.

Same with Lightfoot (LAFG). If I create a Passage List, though the hover comes up in English (LAFE)!

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:25 PM

Ben Martin:

When performing a morphological search in a Bible, such as the ESV, if I show the results as Verses (instead of Aligned of Analysis), I get the option to display another resource side by side. This is useful if I search the NA27, I can put the ESV or NASB beside and quickly see the English text of the verse (as my Greek is not so good).

If I perform the same search in the Apostolic Fathers (Holme's edition), I get no such option to allow me to compare another resource side by side, which is very frustrating. I am able to search in Lake's edition and get English results, but I would prefer Holme's as that is more recent. Additionally, when viewing Holme's edition in English, there is no interlinear button such as there is when viewing Lake's.

Is there a way around this to show search results for Apostolic Fathers in both Greek and English? Is that intended functionality with only being able to view the interlinear tab for Lake's edition and not Lightfoot's or Holme's?

If I understand correctly what you want to do, the answer is relatively simple.  Open Holmes Greek text then open the English and link the two.  Do your morph search and the English will follow.  Since it's fairly obvious, I must have missed something.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 6
Ben Martin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:59 PM

George, I am hoping to see multiple search results in one page at the same time. This method is possible, but requires me to open each verse in Holmes to see the English and Greek texts. It also does not allow me to compare two or more search results together at a glance, as I can do with Bible text.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2010 6:39 AM

Dominick Sela:
I have tried this in the latest beta and it does not work. I even put Apostolic Fathers: English Translations as the highest resource in my priorities and I do not get English when I hover. Does this actually work, what am I doing wrong?

It certainly worked when I  took the sceenshot! Could there be a bug in the beta? (I'm on stable.)

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2010 8:07 AM

fgh:

Dominick Sela:
I have tried this in the latest beta and it does not work. I even put Apostolic Fathers: English Translations as the highest resource in my priorities and I do not get English when I hover. Does this actually work, what am I doing wrong?

It certainly worked when I  took the sceenshot! Could there be a bug in the beta? (I'm on stable.)

I think you must be mistaken when you say that it worked when you took the screenshot.  Dominick was speaking of doing a morph search.  When one does a morph search what he gets in the pop-up is the text in the resource being searched regardless of what version of that work might be set as a higher priority.  E.g., If I do a morph search of the verb συγχαίρω in the Apostolic Fathers (I picked this because I happened to the Martyrdom of Polycarp where the 1st word is Συνεχάρην), it will always give a text in the Greek of the Apostolic Fathers since I did a Greek morphology search.  The same occurs in morphology searches of the bible.  If I search for חיה in the BHS with Westminster 4.2 morphology, it will always return the verses from Westminster 4.2 in the pop-up even if I were to have an English language bible as top priority since Hebrew, specifically BHS Westminster 4.2, is what I searched.  It's hard-coded into the search results. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 20 2010 12:03 PM

George Somsel:
I think you must be mistaken when you say that it worked when you took the screenshot.

And I think you must be mistaken. Smile

My earlier search was a morph search, and so is the one below. With the English translation prioritized, I get Greek if I hover above the word itself:

But I get English when I hover above the verse reference:

If there isn't a bug, you should get the same.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 27222
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 20 2010 12:20 PM

fgh:
It certainly worked when I  took the sceenshot!

Was that on the Mac version, though? It does not work in Windows 4.2 SR-1.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 20 2010 12:27 PM

Well something is different, it does not work with 4.2a beta 2 either. And note in your screen on the Mac, you have a feature under Morph Search that is not on the PC (see circled "Add Versions"):

Also - see my screen shot of exactly what you tried on the Mac. Note, your pop up text is not AF English Text, it is from your Hermeneia Commentary on Ignatius of Antioch - it's the only place your popup text exists, it is not in AF texts. Check out all the circled parts on my example:

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 20 2010 12:58 PM

I thought I figured it out but I did not - I tried setting "Send Hyperlinks here" in the Ignatius of Antioch Hermeneia text, but neither the popup or a click on the link went here. Shouldn't they, if "send hyperlinks here" is set and the reference is valid?

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 20 2010 1:05 PM

fgh:

And I think you must be mistaken. Smile

My earlier search was a morph search, and so is the one below. With the English translation prioritized, I get Greek if I hover above the word itself:

If there isn't a bug, you should get the same.

Perhaps you do have a bug in your program.  As you can see, there is no English. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 20 2010 1:21 PM

Dominick Sela:
in your screen on the Mac, you have a feature under Morph Search that is not on the PC (see circled "Add Versions")

According to the Wiki (http://wiki.logos.com/Morphological_Search) you have that in Windows as well:

(And in any case, it shouldn't affect this, since I'm not using that button for this.)

Dominick Sela:
your pop up text is not AF English Text, it is from your Hermeneia Commentary

You're quite right! I never checked this time. Embarrassed However, if you look at my first screenshot in this thread, you'll see that it is AF:ET there. The reason it wasn't this time was because it was from an AF book I happened to have in Hermeneia, and I happened to have Hermeneia prioritized higher. When I move AF:ET up above Hermeneia, I do get AF:ET in the popups for Ignatius as well:

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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