Stop the Off-topic Discussions!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2481#Comment_2481

Would someone from Logos please gently, but firmly remind us that this forum is for discussing Libronix software and not for theological rambling, opining, and/or name-calling.

Amen

Floyd

Jim Dean

oops. sorry. newby mistake. did not understand the focus was limited to Libronix mechanics.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2484#Comment_2484

oops. sorry. newby mistake. did not understand the focus was limited to Libronix mechanics.

Jim, nobody expects 'newbies' to follow the expectations of veteran newsgroup users. So, no harm, no foul.

Second, we are free to discuss more than the mechanics of how to use Libronix. For example, we've had discussions on how to make the most use out of sentence diagramming for personal use, or sermon prep. The discussion on favorite commentaries (as least as far as it discusses LDLS commentaries and how we use them) is perfectly within the scope of the expectations we had in the newsgroups.

What is out of line is name calling of any kind. Period. Or ridiculing a theological position, or ecclesiastical tradition. Period. Those things are simply not Christian (Ephesians 4:29, e.g.).

But what's also beyond the purpose of the forums (unless Logos is changing its tune) is publicly debating theological problems, issues, controversies, etc. Asking for help in sorting through Libronix resources that discuss these problems, issues, and controversies (etc.) is in. Opining about these things ourselves is not.

But I may be wrong. I haven't heard Logos say anything yet about all the off-topic discussions. Maybe they're waiting for things to settle down. I hope they don't wait so long we start developing bad habits.

Jim Dean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2519#Comment_2519

Thanks, Richard:

I've been "wedded" to Libronix since 2.0 ... back in the 80's I used to have a couple thousand printed books and have given almost all of them away to a Bible College and some missionaries. So, Libronix is a big part of my life ... teaching is my primary gifting, and Libronix certainly does help "redeem the time" in preparation, making the process much more of a blessing for me, and hopefully richer for the students as well.

I've been to several of Morris' classes, and went on the Alaska Cruise (had a great time!), but previously had been frustrated by the lack of a forum. Oops - a touchy subject these days I guess - my barrier was that I refuse to use Outlook since it is essentially a portal to viruses, and all my email, etc has for years been via Yahoo. So, when I recently discovered a forum was in place, I was quite enthused.

Maybe you could tell me - is there a Files area somewhere that we can share our WorkSpaces and Resource Associations, etc that is part of this Forum? I've developed a somewhat unique approach to workspace and RA organization, which I'd like to share with others in the next few weeks ... and hopefully learn some new tricks and workarounds for various nuisance-items in the current engine.

Anyways, thanks for your timely and gracious words!

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2519#Comment_2519

Rich,

Just a quick thought. Other forums I participate in that having nothing to do with Bible software but are entirely about digital art, for example, having a list of what is permissible and what isn't permissible. Maybe that is posted somewhere by Logos and I could be wrong on this, it might help. For instance, on those forums, we talk art and techniques and show art work but we don't run into battles about art philosophy. It may not be a good comparison but it is my experience with other forums.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2522#Comment_2522

Jim,

I know that your "excursion" into the scientific was OT (off topic), but it was SO refreshing. My family is going to the Creation Museum's Creation College in a couple of weeks. Many of the topics you discussed will be taught there as well. I'm looking forward to any further comments you might make...offline of course.

Send me something at bshewmkr at netins dot net

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2525#Comment_2525

I know that your "excursion" into the scientific was OT (off topic),

Bill,

It would make your post easier to follow if you included a brief "quote" so we can determine which message you are quoting. Your reference to "Jim" was a help, but it was not immediate clear to me which post you were addressing.

Thanks,

Floyd

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2523#Comment_2523

having a list of what is permissible and what isn't permissible

Yes, I agree with this. It would be wise to have a set of rules. As pointed out, some OT discussions end up quite helpful and sometimes end up connecting with the software in some way and thus can be useful. But a set of rules that can be pointed to (not when the rules are broken necessarily, but when the rules are abused) I think would be helpful.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2526#Comment_2526

Floyd,

In the past, my notes have included the previous discussion, not sure why that one did not.

Bill

Jim Dean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2525#Comment_2525

Hi, Bill -

On its way to you!

Keep looking up!

Phil Gons (Logos)

Would someone from Logos please
gently, but firmly remind us that this forum is for discussing Libronix
software and not for theological rambling, opining, and/or
name-calling.

Please keep all discussions centered on Logos Bible Software. Thanks!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2550#Comment_2550

Please keep all discussions centered on Logos Bible Software. Thanks!

Thanks for responding, Phil. Let me ask, does Logos intend to moderate these forums and reign in some of these off topic discussions? I'm sure you'll get a bit of flack, if you do. I'm sure you'll loose people, if you don't.

May I also suggest posting a 'rules of engagement' post or statement that is available to first time users, and is easily accessible by everyone. Rules are great, but posting them so they're easily accessible is even better.

Thanks for clarifying this for us.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2616#Comment_2616

Please keep all discussions centered on Logos Bible Software. Thanks!

Thanks for responding, Phil. Let me ask, does Logos intend to moderate these forums and reign in some of these off topic discussions? I'm sure you'll get a bit of flack, if you do. I'm sure you'll loose people, if you don't.

May I also suggest posting a 'rules of engagement' post or statement that is available to first time users, and is easily accessible by everyone. Rules are great, but posting them so they're easily accessible is even better.

Thanks for clarifying this for us.

Richard,

I understand your frustration and appreciate your efforts to get everyone back on track. I think it may be just the new atmosphere of the forums -vs- the newsgroups. Although I posted only a few times in the newsgroups I noticed that almost all the off topic posts in the forums have been done by long time posters that were well established in the newsgroups. Now that Phil has weighed in with the simply stated "keep all discussions centered on Logos Bible Software", we can dispense with (not to be confused with dispensationalize) theological debate and personal insults. I really learn a lot reading the on topic threads. Maybe those who want to continue the colorful exchange of theological differences need a chat room rather than a forum

As the dust settles I think threads will become better focused.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2618#Comment_2618

i would rather these be self policing unless they get wayyy out of control. I do think a "chat room", or even a theological forum section would be
interesting, and perhaps drive up traffic to the logos sites. I don't like the rancor that often accompanies such discussion--and I have seen a bit of that in the short two weeks since I have discovered these forums. But many of "us" aren't used to speaking in circles outside our own and need a healthy lesson or two on speaking with gentleness and developing peace making abilities.

Still, I am leery of strict enforcement of "on-topic" discussion, perhaps because I have my own tendency to meander a bit. I do like tidbits I learn about and from others that are off topic, and it helps me (social butterfly that I apparently am) to connect with the users and see this as a kind of logos family, raither than simply a regimented forum. I am unfamiliar with the particular "off-topic" occurences being referred to in this post, but in general I would like to allow for wiggle room to go a bit off topic.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2689#Comment_2689

I am leery of strict enforcement of "on-topic" discussion, perhaps because I have my own tendency to meander a bit.

I think we can accommodate meanderers ...[:)]

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2689#Comment_2689

In thinking about this, there is one good solution that has not been mentioned.

When I was building and running my own discussion forum several years back, I had an option to "Split" a thread. This way, when folks got off topic, I could simply take all the Off Topic posts, split them into a new thread, and let people post away.

Here is my suggestion then. Why not create a Forum for "Off Topic" debate and discussion. Then allow someone with the power to moderate, to split off distracting discussions and move them to the new forum.

This way everyone wins.

Folks who are annoyed, don't have to read.

The original thread is kept on topic for those who want to stay on topic.

Those who want to argue or fight can have their own new sandbox to play in :-)

Can we make that happen Logos?

Tell you what, hire me and lets get it done :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3932#Comment_3932

Here is my suggestion then. Why not create a Forum for "Off Topic" debate and discussion. Then allow someone with the power to moderate, to split off distracting discussions and move them to the new forum.

It was mentioned at some point - but it is a good idea. Thanks Joe.

Blessings,

Floyd

Ken Shawver

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3942#Comment_3942

I also agree that the off-topic conversations would best be served in a forum devoted to that. With that said it would be "extremely" helpful if that the conversations carried out in this forum were discussed in the "Love of Christ" instead of some of the firey darts tha thave been going on in recent weeks.

This goes for the old-timers as well. There is no excuse for brothers and sisters in Christ to be slamming others because they do not have the same theological leanings as others. God places those called by His name into the body as HE desires (1 Corinthians 12:12-26).

For too long the body of Christ has been good shooting ourselves in the foot while our real enemy sits on the sideline and enjoys the show. Let's unite and discuss things on topic with the same love, grace, and mercy our heavenly Father affords us each and everyday.

In Christ,

Ken

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3968#Comment_3968

I really dont understand this thread. This thread is an OT discussion asking that OT discussions be stopped. Apparently there are some who like to discuss this topic and others who do not. Those who do not simply ignore it. They dont click on it nor read it.

There is another OT discussion going on right now that some people are discussing because they want to. And those who dont, simply dont click on it.

I do agree that we all should discuss things in love. But there is a learning curve...on how to carry on a discussion via a forum in love. As well, there will always be those that refuse to follow the rules and will not discuss in love.

We like to think that all on the forum are going to be Christ-like because it is a Christian forum. But only true believers will be Christ like...and even true believers have to grow. So it is a nice wish to think all can discuss things in a loving manner. But it is not realistic.

I dont think OT discussions will ever stop. But on the forum, there is an option...to ignore posts that you dont want to read...There are so many posts that it is being done probably by all of us..we are ignoring posts we are not interested in.

Mark

Ken Avery

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3972#Comment_3972

Apparently, from all the responses in such a short time, we have found common ground on a subject everyone is an expert; what not to talk about and how to say and prove you are "in the spirit".

I would tell you what I am really thinking; though, it would be off topic and not PC!

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2550#Comment_2550

Please keep all discussions centered on Logos Bible Software. Thanks!

I thought I was being helpful in offering a suggestion that worked on the forum I bult and moderated for several years. Very well then... will refrain from offering any further suggestions regarding the discussion forum, its use or its mechanics since that is not Logos software... thanks for clarifying things Phil.

------- NOTE ---------

I got confused and thought this post from you Phil (on page one) came after my suggestion (on page two). I may still be off base in posting the suggestion though, so I will assume my current post above reflects your wishes about off-topic comments unless I hear otherweise.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3972#Comment_3972

I really dont understand this thread. This thread is an OT discussion asking that OT discussions be stopped. Apparently there are some who like to discuss this topic and others who do not. Those who do not simply ignore it. They dont click on it nor read it.

There is another OT discussion going on right now that some people are discussing because they want to. And those who dont, simply dont click on it.

I do agree that we all should discuss things in love. But there is a learning curve...on how to carry on a discussion via a forum in love. As well, there will always be those that refuse to follow the rules and will not discuss in love.

We like to think that all on the forum are going to be Christ-like because it is a Christian forum. But only true believers will be Christ like...and even true believers have to grow. So it is a nice wish to think all can discuss things in a loving manner. But it is not realistic.

I dont think OT discussions will ever stop. But on the forum, there is an option...to ignore posts that you dont want to read...There are so many posts that it is being done probably by all of us..we are ignoring posts we are not interested in.

Mark

I have benn a member of forums in which the moderators clamped down on posts to keep everything on target, even to the point of suspending some of the most helpful members of the community. The forums quickly became so boring that posts dried up and forum attendance faded away.

If you really want off-topic discussions to end, you should ignore THIS thread [:|]

Personally, I enjoy off-topic discussions. If I don't, I ignore the thread.

Jack

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3988#Comment_3988

Jack

You may have misunderstood my post. I completely agree with what you wrote and that is what I meant to say.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3989#Comment_3989

Mark

I understood that. Sorry, I did not make my post more clear.

Jackl

Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3994#Comment_3994

Seems clear to me that Logos really doesn't mind "off topic discussions" otherwise they'd do something about them. Though I think it's rude to hijack a post and take it in a different direction, I don't mind the debates and discussions at all. I think the split idea above is good one.

Brad

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4002#Comment_4002

Seems clear to me that Logos really doesn't mind "off topic discussions" otherwise they'd do something about them. Though I think it's rude to hijack a post and take it in a different direction, I don't mind the debates and discussions at all. I think the split idea above is good one.

Brad

Not true. Logos does mind. Look at Phil's post from July 7, and Logos' response in the discussion in the suggestions group that I started on that subject. Logos minds, but they don't want to strong-arm their wishes here. They depend on us to 'police' ourselves and each other.

As far as an OT group goes, I doubt they'd be interested. It was asked for in the days of the newsgroups too, and we were told 'No.'

There are plenty of forums for discussing theology. If that's what you want, go find one. Logos doesn't want to become one and I hope it doesn't. Those sorts of forums attract all that's shallow and vitriolic, and preclude genuine thoughtful discussions. Even those OT discussions that have happened here quickly degenerated into something less than edifying.

Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4012#Comment_4012

Yes, I remember Phil's response. I'm sure it was sincere but I still don't get the impression it concerns them much. We have the option to "Report Abuse". Other than that I think it's best to just not read what I don't like.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4002#Comment_4002

Yes, Split the threads. It is also possible to lock down a thread so no new posts can happen. But it is pretty clear more than a few enjoy some of the off topic stuff.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4012#Comment_4012

Logos minds, but they don't want to strong-arm their wishes here. They depend on us to 'police' ourselves and each other.

"Police"? I appreciate gentle reminders on occassion but when you start issuing citations & placing posters under arrest, I'm runnin' for the hills! [:'(]

I think a lot of good on topic stuff gets mentioned in the midst of the off topic rants. Logos is probably gleaning the wheat from the tares.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4025#Comment_4025

Logos is probably gleaning the wheat from the tares.

I am sorry - when all I see is the tares among the wheat, I stop looking for the wheat!

Blessings,

Floyd

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4025#Comment_4025

I think a lot of good on topic stuff gets mentioned in the midst of the off topic rants. Logos is probably gleaning the wheat from the tares.

No, only the angels do that at the end of the age. [;)]

Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4027#Comment_4027

That's why God doesn't let us do the gleaning. (Mt.25:14-30).[C]

Brad

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2689#Comment_2689

Daniel DeVilder wrote the following post at Thu, Jul 9 2009 1:57 PM:
i would rather these be self policing unless they get wayyy out of control. I do think a "chat room", or even a theological forum section would be interesting, and perhaps drive up traffic to the logos sites.

I agree with Daniel. I think it would be helpful to create additional forums that relate to Logos, but are a little more off-topic, like "theological issues" and maybe "technological tools and other software."

By the way, I tried to include a quote of Daniel's post, but it didn't seem to work the way that most of you do it. I had to copy and paste. How do I include a quote when I am replying to another post?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4046#Comment_4046

I have another question. Why did my blank lines not appear in my post? It ran it all together in one paragraph.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4046#Comment_4046

By the way, I tried to include a quote of Daniel's post, but it didn't seem to work the way that most of you do it. I had to copy and paste. How do I include a quote when I am replying to another post?

First, click on the "Reply" button then highlight the text you wish to quote and click on "Quote."

Graham Owen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3988#Comment_3988

I have benn a member of forums in which the moderators clamped down on posts to keep everything on target, even to the point of suspending some of the most helpful members of the community. The forums quickly became so boring that posts dried up and forum attendance faded away.

One of the things that I really liked about the news groups was the way that discussions developed around Logos and the OT elements were an important part of the groups character. The forum has inherited some of this and I personally see this as good my only problem is that the way the forum presents the messages it is sometimes difficult (impossible) to follow the multiple discussion threads.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3981#Comment_3981

I got confused and thought this post from you Phil (on page one) came after my suggestion (on page two). I may still be off base in posting the suggestion though, so I will assume my current post above reflects your wishes about off-topic comments unless I hear otherweise.

Maybe Logos can't split posts with this forum software, or simply do not wish to be burdened with the task. Phil's reply was rather lame (lacking authority/finality/decisiveness) given the total history of Off-topic posts and requests through the newsgroups and this forum.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4074#Comment_4074

I got confused and thought this post from you Phil (on page one) came after my suggestion (on page two). I may still be off base in posting the suggestion though, so I will assume my current post above reflects your wishes about off-topic comments unless I hear otherweise.

Maybe Logos can't split posts with this forum software, or simply do not wish to be burdened with the task. Phil's reply was rather lame (lacking authority/finality/decisiveness) given the total history of Off-topic posts and requests through the newsgroups and this forum.

Phil's response wasn't really lame. It just wasn't what some wanted to hear. Perhaps some wanted no response from Logos. Perhaps some wanted Logos to permanently ban certain users and rescind their license agreements. Perhaps many wanted some type of moderate accomodations for all posters. But it really should not surprise us that a box full of preachers &/or academics should get a little rowdy. If you've ever introduced a new parakeet to your birdcage social network you know the next morning you will find blood & feathers everywhere. [6] [^o)] [8o|] [:@] [+o(] [:#] [:'(] [:$] [:(]

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4078#Comment_4078

Well done Matthew (you forgot this one: [:D] )

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4025#Comment_4025

"Police"? I appreciate gentle reminders on occassion but when you start issuing citations & placing posters under arrest, I'm runnin' for the hills

[:)] Of course I intended to use word 'police' as a verb, and in the sense of 'to clean up, or put in order' as in 'police the area.' I learned this use of the term in a Christian boys club (the Calvinist Cadet Corps, or "Cadets), and it referred to cleaning up a camping area: finding and disposing of trash, putting things in their proper place, and returning the site to proper order. On the last day, we were supposed to police the area and leave it in better condition than when we found it.

In a more general sense, 'police' means to enforce the 'policies' of a 'polis' (Gr.: 'city')--from which we also get our word 'polite,' BTW, It's my hope that we can police each other in a way that is polite, and in keeping with the policies of this polis (community)--which is still being governed by Logos -- this is not a democracy.

I don't believe it's Logos' intention, nor is it mine, to come down hard on every infraction, or to put it metaphorically, give you jail time for doing 61 mph in a 60 mph zone. But there is an expectation that the intent of the rules is followed: to keep the discussion on and around the use of Logos' software (especially Libronix).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4049#Comment_4049

First, click on the "Reply" button then highlight the text you wish to quote and click on "Quote."

OK, now it worked. I thought I tried that before. Oh well, thanks, George!

Have a great day!

Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4101#Comment_4101

And now my blank lines worked too! Cyberspace is smiling on me!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4102#Comment_4102

Cyberspace is smiling on me!

I am sure we could recommend somebody to talk to. [:)]

Blessings,

Floyd

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4065#Comment_4065

The forum has inherited some of this and I personally see this as good my only problem is that the way the forum presents the messages it is sometimes difficult (impossible) to follow the multiple discussion threads.

Very true. This forum is in desperate need of some improvements to make it more manageable in more ways than one.

Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4086#Comment_4086

Of course I intended to use word 'police' as a verb

.......

But there is an expectation that the intent of the rules is followed: to keep the discussion on and around the use of Logos' software (especially Libronix).

Richard,

I do understand your use of "police" My Grandpa was a police officer & a "G-man." My brother-in-law is now a Judge and full-bird colonel in the USAF. I'm the legalist who likes having a set of rules. BTW, I still don't know where to find this set of rules everybody keeps referring to. Thanks for the good word study though.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4107#Comment_4107

As far as I know, there are no rules, just a recommendation of Phil. I like it this way.

ZoesProudDaddy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4025#Comment_4025

Like others have said, if you have a problem with a topic just ignore it. We are all adults here and hopefully if we find something offensive we will either bring it up in a discussion politely or we will ignore it. Logos doesn't need to police us. As others have said, when clamping down starts people leave. Look at the commentary thread, more than 100 responses and for the most part its been polite and beneficial. If Logos minds then they will close such threads and make a sticky. Otherwise I think we can continue to post things that interest us and for those who choose not to take part they don't have to.

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/4115#Comment_4115

Like others have said, if you have a problem with a topic just ignore it. We are all adults here and hopefully if we find something offensive we will either bring it up in a discussion politely or we will ignore it. Logos doesn't need to police us. As others have said, when clamping down starts people leave. Look at the commentary thread, more than 100 responses and for the most part its been polite and beneficial. If Logos minds then they will close such threads and make a sticky. Otherwise I think we can continue to post things that interest us and for those who choose not to take part they don't have to.

Hi Alan,

Nice to hear from you and have a good day. I need not say i agree & i am with you on this[;)]

Ted