Cloud Fears

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Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 22 2010 10:39 AM

I don't know if you have seen it, but Skype is down worldwide as of noon EST today.  My life does not depend on Skype, but my sermon preparation is depending more and more on LOGOS and Biblios - if, and when, Logos moves all material to the Web, we too could see the kind of problems seen by Skype users today.  I hope that Biblios always remains an option - and does not become a requirement.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 22 2010 4:49 PM

So far there is no indication that Logos has any thoughts of moving off the PC.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 22 2010 10:28 PM

I could see a future subscription style service being offered; but I cannot imagine them ever taking away the option to purchase and store a library on your PC

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 22 2010 10:30 PM

Or your Mac....sorry Jack and AllenWink

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2010 5:03 AM

Fred Chapman:

Or your Mac....sorry Jack and AllenWink

You beat me to this Big Smile. But I understand the language. It is somewhat like using man to mean human being, either male of female. Geeked

Posts 64
Aaron Baldridge | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2010 11:26 AM

I agree. I don't see Logos going to a cloud system for that very reason. It is a great system when it works but it is far too vulnerable and internet connections are not always dependable either. Our DSL was out for two weeks a couple of months ago at the church. I would have been in a world of hurt if all my logos materials were online only.

 

Aaron

Posts 3747
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2010 11:51 AM

The more our data is on servers in the cloud, the more vulnerable we are... See this PC World Article  Logos is a hybrid in that our data is already synced to the cloud.

 

 

 

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

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Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2010 8:21 PM

MJ. Smith:

So far there is no indication that Logos has any thoughts of moving off the PC.

On June 4, Bob wrote following:

So I see a future in which consumer applications (like Logos Bible Software) are, by definition, cloud applications. For example, Gmail is a consumer email client, Google's attempts to sell it to business not-withstanding. Nobody complains that Gmail runs on Google's servers. It's a cloud service. Even the availability of a desktop client wouldn't cause the world to clamor for Gmail that stored all its data on your hard drive. Nobody is surprised when your email messages are archived on Google's server. That's what cloud apps do, so you can access them from other machines, have online backup, etc.

Logos was a desktop only app, and it's moving towards being a cloud app. It isn't there yet, and may be a hybrid for a long time, or even forever. So I understand that this change is catching some people off guard, and upsetting others. Not everyone will even agree that it's a good idea. I've had the same experience with other apps myself. (Family Tree Maker used to be something I had a purely offline experience with. Now Ancestry.com is the new "cloud" solution they're pushing towards. Weird change at first, but now I appreciate it.)

See:  http://community.logos.com/forums/t/17936.aspx

Will it happen?  I don't know, but certainly Bob has had thoughts.

 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2010 1:03 AM

Floyd Johnson:
Will it happen?  I don't know, but certainly Bob has had thoughts.

My bad ... I misremembered and didn't check

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 261
Ralph A. Abernethy III | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2010 2:22 PM

St. Luke 9:34:

As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.  

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 5:31 AM

Ralph A. Abernethy III:

St. Luke 9:34:

As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.  

Beautiful analogy Ralph. Cool And many remain fearful as they enter the cloud.

Posts 299
Robert Mullen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 9:58 AM

Bob Pritchett:

So I see a future in which consumer applications (like Logos Bible Software) are, by definition, cloud applications. For example, Gmail is a consumer email client, Google's attempts to sell it to business not-withstanding. Nobody complains that Gmail runs on Google's servers.

This was marginally true at the time it was posted but is less true today and is growing increasingly less true as time passes. I have no real paranoia about having my information in the cloud and am not a real "privacy" person but there is an issue of trust that Google is seeing erode. As people find out the specifics of the personal search and consumption patterns stored and used for statistics and algorithm tuning they are increasingly growing weary. Facebook is facing the same fallout. Now, there is a fundamental difference in the business models that is VERY important: Google and Facebook do not "charge" for their services but the fee you pay for the right to use mail and social media is your historical usage data, your circle of association (friends, colleagues, family), and your eyes as advertising is presented in sometimes subtle and sometimes invisible ways. Now, Logos charges for their fine product so the cloud is a whole different ball of wax. In a pay product the cloud should only be about convenience and availability and not about cross marketing. Do I trust Logos to protect my sensitive information more than Google from a business ethics standpoint? Yes. Do I believe they have the same ability (information and infrastructure security)? No because they do not have the resource base to hire the type of people that Google does. They also are a smaller target which mitigates some but not all of the risk. The whole cloud computing approach is much like everything else in life in that it has layers of complexity and subtle distinctions that aren't apparent without careful thought. I trust Bob and crew are doing this. I imagine his comparison to Gmail was not meant to be stretched too far as an analogy.

I for one like this hybrid approach they have created as it allows me the best part of the cloud in syncing and everywhere availability. I also can opt out completely if I want. Bob, please keep this model and don't drink the cloud kool aid too deeply. I do not share the belief that most future consumer application will be definitively cloud based. I have been around IT long enough to see these trends come and go. Cloud will make some permanent impact on the landscape but much of its hype will die away as the backlash increases and the risks (ala Skype, T-Mobile Sidekick, Navitaire, etc.) become apparent.

Posts 3747
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 11:08 AM

Robert Mullen:
... As people find out the specifics of the personal search and consumption patterns stored and used for statistics and algorithm tuning they are increasingly growing weary. Facebook is facing the same fallout. ... 

Yes

Robert Mullen:
Do I trust Logos to protect my sensitive information more than Google from a business ethics standpoint? Yes. Do I believe they have the same ability (information and infrastructure security)? No because they do not have the resource base to hire the type of people that Google does. They also are a smaller target which mitigates some but not all of the risk. 

Yes

Robert Mullen:
 I for one like this hybrid approach they have created as it allows me the best part of the cloud in syncing and everywhere availability. I also can opt out completely if I want. Bob, please keep this model and don't drink the cloud kool aid too deeply.

Yes

Excellent points, Robert!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 3848
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 2:16 PM

Robert Mullen:

Bob Pritchett:

So I see a future in which consumer applications (like Logos Bible Software) are, by definition, cloud applications. For example, Gmail is a consumer email client, Google's attempts to sell it to business not-withstanding. Nobody complains that Gmail runs on Google's servers.

This was marginally true at the time it was posted but is less true today and is growing increasingly less true as time passes.

I, admittedly, do not follow the technology as closely as I used to, but I am not sure I am seeing much difference since June 2010, when Bob posted this.  I hope that you are correct, but cannot be as certain as you seem to be.  

I also do not have the paranoia that other have spoken of - but that does not mean each do not have a responsibility to keep informed.

 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 3:18 PM

Ralph A. Abernethy III:

St. Luke 9:34:

As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.  

My version for Logos Bible Software:

As they implemented these things he was perturbed and took his computer to find another application.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 171
Abi Gail | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 3:37 PM

Ralph A. Abernethy III:

St. Luke 9:34:

As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.  

The Sky Is Falling !!! ... The Sky Is Falling !!! Huh?

~

Posts 299
Robert Mullen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 3:53 PM

Floyd Johnson:
I, admittedly, do not follow the technology as closely as I used to, but I am not sure I am seeing much difference since June 2010, when Bob posted this.  I hope that you are correct, but cannot be as certain as you seem to be.  

In the last two weeks I have read articles on major media outlets about the privacy concerns with reference to Google search engine reach and Facebook data collection as well. I am in IT so maybe I am more exposed to this but these are not minor outlets.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/12/24/ex.google.employees/index.html?hpt=Sbin

http://blogs.wsj.com/wtk/

This is a big deal and something that is being touted (scaremongering) as "The end of privacy." Should we care as Christians? I personally don't care too much. My Facebook profile is public and there is nothing there my church family or my secular friends cannot or should not see. If Facebook wants to use it I am fine too as I am a reasonably discerning consumer (except for Pre-Pubs I am afraid.) If I were a Christian in Saudi Arabia I might feel differently though.

None of this is a knock on Logos. I love the App and resources and recommend it heartily to all my friends. I just don't think "The Cloud" is all it is cracked up to be. I am not scared of it though, just a bit skeptical.

 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 4:03 PM

Abi Gail:

The Sky Is Falling !!! ... The Sky Is Falling !!! Huh?

Hopefully not.  My problem is that I don't wish to be tied down to always requiring an internet connection.  While I am normally connected at all times, I can envision circumstances when I may not be so I don't wish to have it as a necessity to do my work.  If they decided they wished to sell resourses and also rent them, I would not object, and rented resources could be "in the cloud" since I may want them for a limited time.  Any purchased resource I purchase should be permanently on my computer, and I should have the option to purchase or rent any resource they offer.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 4:07 PM

Robert Mullen:

In the last two weeks I have read articles on major media outlets about the privacy concerns with reference to Google search engine reach and Facebook data collection as well. I am in IT so maybe I am more exposed to this but these are not minor outlets.

Since Logos does not sync notes, I can't see privacy concerns as being a subject of real concern. 

Robert Mullen:

This is a big deal and something that is being touted (scaremongering) as "The end of privacy." Should we care as Christians? I personally don't care too much. My Facebook profile is public and there is nothing there my church family or my secular friends cannot or should not see. If Facebook wants to use it I am fine too as I am a reasonably discerning consumer (except for Pre-Pubs I am afraid.) If I were a Christian in Saudi Arabia I might feel differently though.

I just had a thought.  If someone who was going to be in Saudi Arabia where you can't take a bible into the country, downloading it over the internet might be an alternative.  I would suggest taking a pristine computer into the country though.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 826
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2010 4:44 PM

Robert Mullen:
I for one like this hybrid approach they have created as it allows me the best part of the cloud in syncing and everywhere availability.

I agree with this analysis of the "hybrid" approach.  It seems to work well and combines the best of the PC and the cloud.  Logos has thought this out and applied it very well.  All well and good.

HOWEVER, I am concerned about the day that Logos operates at a reduced capacity (for whatever reason), or ceases to exist, or is bought out by a less committed company, or Martians arrive and take over the internet, or, worse yet, bureaucrats from the FCC arrive and take over the internet (hmmm ...), or whatever.  Then the cloud (hybrid or not) may not be our friend.  I can always back up all of my Logos resource and index files (and I do as a matter of hard lessons learned long ago), but if I had to reinstall the application with limited or no internet access, then things could/would get very dicey.  I can't help it ... I worry about that gossamer umbilical called the internet.

What I would like to see is the availability of an installation DVD  (updated, say, quarterly?) that does NOT require internet access, will fully install the latest L4 application, and will discover and install all of my backed-up resources and indexes.  Make it available at cost, by request or on a subscription basis. 

Although this has been suggested before, I think this one step would make most if not all of the cloud qualms quiet down ... and it would also make those with download caps a lot happier.

JRS has left the building.

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