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Posts 11
Jai Reid | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 14 2011 12:34 PM

Well, the next generation can hardly conceive of a device that is not connected to the internet, so I would tend to think that smaller churches are going to have internet in the main auditorium as soon as that generation becomes board members/deacons/presbetry members (whatever you call them). If a church has a phone line and electricity, it really won't be that expensive, and if they have a projector, they've pretty much got to have electricity. Once you get internet to whever the phone is, it's just a matter of running one line up to anywhere in the main auditorium and hooking up a wireless router to it.

As for why have internet:

The reason I see for smaller churches to have internet in the main auditorium are as follows:

1. Generational relevancy - if you have anyone younger than age 30 in your congregation, they will likely think it's a bit strange that any building doesn't have internet. How would you feel if you went to a church that didn't have electricity, and was still using a wood/coal-burning stove and oil lamps? That's likely how they feel about your church (or will soon). (Though, it may not be as obvious as those things.)

2. If you use a desktop computer for projection, then software updates, etc, are very inconvenient without internet.

3. There are more and more tools coming on the market for controlling presentations from a WiFi enabled device. (ie. use your iPad to control the presentation computer).

4. More and more people are forgoing USB Flash-ROM devices in favour of cloud-based file sharing (ie. DropBox). There may soon come a day when if you ask a person if they can bring it on a thumb-drive they'll look at you blankly.

5. As more and more programs become cloud-based, it may become harder to get versions that actually load on your computer. MS Office was recently ported to the cloud, and I can forsee a day when Powerpoint is no longer available on computer. (I don't particularly like this move, since I'm a bit of a control freak, but that's progress, I guess)

6. More and more people are using cellular devices as their Bible, but the favourite Bibles require constant internet access. While they may be able to do it through their cellular network (not on an iTouch or iPad w/ wifi-only though), they will greatly prefer a WiFi network as there are no access fees.

Posts 19
Diederick Rudolph Schwartz | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 28 2012 7:42 PM

It is more than a disappointment to hear about this at this stage.  I have done all the groundwork, invited others to my group, signed up with Planning Center, and now I realize that (at least for the moment) that I cannot be used in our church - outback NSW Australia. 

I was exited to download the program and just couldn't wait to start using it.  But now ...?

Maybe Proclaim developers and advertisers should state clearly that internet connection is needed!

In the meantime, please make it possible for me and others in the same position to create a cut-off point for changes to the presentation, and then create a file to be downloaded on a portable device for presentation.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 29 2012 1:19 AM

Diederick

I haven't followed this thread throughout but...

It is certainly possible to use Proclaim without an internet connection in the sanctury. I do it every week or so.

I build the the service as I want it - with input from the organist and minister on my desk based iMac.

Come Sunday evening I sync my Presentation to my MacBook and carry it down to the church and use it to run the presentation.

If, I have to be elsewhere another of my friends syncs the presentation to her Windows based thingumajig and she take that to the church and hooks it up to the projector.

Having internet in the building would be a bonus but Proclaim, to all intents and purposes, works just fine without it. 

Posts 19
Diederick Rudolph Schwartz | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 29 2012 2:54 AM

Thanks for the information, brother.  I'll try and see how it works.  Does this mean that others contribute to the presentation before the syncing happens over the internet?  And how do you then sync it to your Macbook?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 29 2012 3:18 AM

Hi Diederick

Diederick Rudolph Schwartz:
Does this mean that others contribute to the presentation before the syncing happens over the internet?

Others contribute to the presentation in the cloud and - in the process - they each end up with a synced copy of the most recent presentation

Diederick Rudolph Schwartz:
And how do you then sync it to your Macbook?

You would need to open the finished version on your laptop and allow the sync process to take place which would happen automatically

Graham

Posts 2351
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 29 2012 5:51 AM

Mike Binks:

I sync my Presentation to my MacBook and carry it down to the church and use it to run the presentation.

How do you do last minute changes?  Hymns, Scripture readings, change in sermon subject, even different guest speaker?

Or is the visual display seen as a plus and not an integral part of the service so blanking the screen is not a problem?

[As in the pastor's former teacher (or the church's former pastor) arrives at breakfast time and is invited to speak - was expected the next day and as he was not staying the full week his being available to speak was not expected]

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 29 2012 6:16 AM

David Ames:
How do you do last minute changes?  Hymns, Scripture readings, change in sermon subject, even different guest speaker?

You can edit the local "cached" version while not connected to the Internet in exactly the same way as you would when connected.

There are, obviously, things you can't do like get access to Biblia to import Bible references but you can do manual changes.

Graham

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 29 2012 9:13 AM

I don't use Proclaim, but my understanding is:

  • You cannot save the presentation onto a memory stick and bring it to church to run the presentation on the church computer.
  • You can sync the presentation to an internet connected laptop, then disconnect that laptop from the internet, bring it into the church and hook it up to the projector.
Posts 21
Drew James | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 2:00 PM

I am very curious, call me 'sheltered', are there really that many churches that use projection of any kind that doesn't have or plan to have internet access in their churches?

Besides that, with many standalone options readily available out there from paid to free to simply project without the cloud, why would anyone say that there is any market-share 'lost' for a program that is NOT a projection (only) tool, but a collaborative design space AND church congregation interaction tool? In my naive mind that simply screams that instead of share loss, rather Logos is creating NEW market-share.

I can understand that if there is internet infrastructure or connectivity issues due to location/cost the Proclaim probably is not the right tool for the job, cause you probably aren't going to have a congregation that by majority has an internet device to have in service to interact with anyway.

Anyway, forgive my comments if they seem naive, I don't mean to come across as crass, just was reading thru the forum trying to glean info and ran across this one and was astonished at the comment stream. 

Kudos to Logos/Proclaim team, we are heading into our 3rd week using Proclaim and I couldn't be more stoked to see what this program can do as it continuously improves! We are excited about getting all of our preaching and teaching staff trained up in the coming weeks so that our production team and them will be able to collaborate all the more and get the Word out in a more relative and proffesional way.

 

Drew

Production/Technical Director of church w/ <200members

have had internet in bldg for at least the last 10+ years.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 11:42 PM

Hi Drew - and welcome to the forums

Drew James:
I am very curious, call me 'sheltered', are there really that many churches that use projection of any kind that doesn't have or plan to have internet access in their churches?

Difficult to say. There are probably issues relating to size and location and there will be a significant variation (I would think) across countries. In my church, in England, for example we have been using computer-based projection for many years and last year removed our Internet connection. It was just not something we could justify in terms of the cost vs the benefit we received from it.

I would agree the general trend would be towards Internet connectivity but I wouldn't see it as a given.

Drew James:
Besides that, with many standalone options readily available out there from paid to free to simply project without the cloud, why would anyone say that there is any market-share 'lost' for a program that is NOT a projection (only) tool, but a collaborative design space AND church congregation interaction tool? In my naive mind that simply screams that instead of share loss, rather Logos is creating NEW market-share.

This I agree with completely.

I have spent time testing Proclaim - including looking into the details of how it worked in a non-Internet connected environment - and agree that it is a bold move forward and a good direction for Logos to be taking

Graham

Posts 21
Drew James | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 19 2012 7:34 AM

Graham Criddle:
Difficult to say. There are probably issues relating to size and location and there will be a significant variation (I would think) across countries. In my church, in England, for example we have been using computer-based projection for many years and last year removed our Internet connection. It was just not something we could justify in terms of the cost vs the benefit we received from it.

I would agree the general trend would be towards Internet connectivity but I wouldn't see it as a given.

Thanks for the welcome and insight Graham, I also was thinking; is the there also a correlation of churches that use Planning Center Online and SongSelect WITH internet vs those without? I mean I wouldn't imagine many would use these products as much if they did NOT have internet, would they?

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