Beating the Dead Horse (Morph Searching)

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This post has 17 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 82
David L Adams | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011 7:23 AM | Locked

I hate to be the person to bring this up again,  but this morning I needed to do a search for other examples of a particular Hebrew morphological form for a class that I was teaching. I have not needed to do this for a few weeks, so I went to the morph search feature — I am using 4.2a Beta 4 (4.21.4.8941) — and discovered, much to my pain, that the drop-down panel that allows the specification of morphological tags STILL does not work properly. Specifically, when you select options with a mouse click the appropriate code is not entered into the search string.

The search itself seems to work correctly if you can guess which codes to enter and type them in by hand, but the drop down box does not work. I know that I and others have noted this problem going way back into the beta process. And I realize that there is a prioritized list of things that need to be worked on. However, to have the UI for such a fundamental tool remain broken this far into the release process is just not acceptable. I cannot encourage my professorial colleagues to get this software when such a basic tool does not work. And it is embarrassing to have to tell my students that "they will fix this Real Soon Now."

After an hour or so of attempting to get this to work, I gave up and went back to Accordance and had the answer in less than five minutes. As we say down South, "That ain't right."

Is there anything that can be done to get this moved higher up in the priority list so that it gets fixed soon?

– DLA

Posts 68
Tom Philpot | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 12 2011 9:13 AM | Locked

David,

I'm going to go through Morph search later today with our designer and look at the issues on Mac.

Posts 82
David L Adams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 12 2011 10:46 AM | Locked

Thanks, Tom. You guys are doing a great job overall. Please keep up the good work.

By the way, I have some thoughts on how the overall user interface for morph searching could be significantly improved in a future version (L4.x or even L5). I don't want to post them to the group -- they are more design ideas than bug fixes -- but if you are interested in them I will write them up and send them along to you.

dla

Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 12 2011 2:45 PM | Locked

David Adams:

By the way, I have some thoughts on how the overall user interface for morph searching could be significantly improved in a future version (L4.x or even L5). I don't want to post them to the group -- they are more design ideas than bug fixes -- but if you are interested in them I will write them up and send them along to you.

I would put the ideas on http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4 or email suggest@logos.com with the suggestions and they'll get looked at by the appropriate person.

 

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 13 2011 6:47 AM | Locked

On PC can click on morph value to add search criteria (e.g. verb => V), but Logos 4 Mac still requires typing morph code letter => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/29772.aspx - using keyboard arrow keys can highlight desired search, but not know how to add to morph search.  Also clicking morph choices, scrolling right, and clicking blue arrow not work in Logos 4.2a Beta 6 on Mac:

Also noticed Logos 4.2a Beta 6 on PC (missing on Mac Beta 6) has some English words to assist Hebrew transliteration selection:

Keep Smiling Smile

 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 13 2011 8:00 PM | Locked

 

Hi Keep Smiling,

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Also noticed Logos 4.2a Beta 6 on PC (missing on Mac Beta 6) has some English words to assist Hebrew transliteration selection:

For clarity, this feature (glosses in drop-down box for morph search) has been in the Windows version since 4.0 - (see http://wiki.logos.com/Morphological_Search step 7 for info)

So this is an outstanding feature-parity issue as opposed to something not being quite in step during this beta cycle.

Graham

 

 

Posts 14
Richard Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 2:47 PM | Locked

This is good news. I am a Mac user, with 4.0b SR-4 (4.10.4.9457), and I too can not get the drop menu items to populate the search line. This would sure be handy for my 2nd semester Hebrew class!

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Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 3:42 PM | Locked

Richard,

It still works, you just have to type the letters. For example open morph search type lemma:filew select the Greek lemma the @V??I gets you verb anything anything imperative. Just type the letters and the search will populate... so no excuse for your class. Sorry, my example was Greek, but you get the idea.

Posts 14
Richard Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:03 AM | Locked

Hey John,

Thanks for the reply. I looked in the help menu for the appropriate letters to use to populate the search bar, but I am having trouble finding anything. For example, I want to search on a Hebrew verb in Pual, but creating something like you had for Greek with 'VP' does not seem to return anything, and I am unsure if the search is looking for Piel instead. What would I type of I wanted to find all Pual forms of a verb? Maybe then I could figure out how morph search is working, and then even add some filtering. I am new to all of this, so I very much appreciate what I can find in these forumns. Thanks,

Richard

Posts 4077
Melissa Snyder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 23 2011 11:36 AM | Locked

Richard Maguire:

Hey John,

Thanks for the reply. I looked in the help menu for the appropriate letters to use to populate the search bar, but I am having trouble finding anything. For example, I want to search on a Hebrew verb in Pual, but creating something like you had for Greek with 'VP' does not seem to return anything, and I am unsure if the search is looking for Piel instead. What would I type of I wanted to find all Pual forms of a verb? Maybe then I could figure out how morph search is working, and then even add some filtering. I am new to all of this, so I very much appreciate what I can find in these forumns. Thanks,

Richard

Richard ~  After typing the @ symbol in the Morph search box, does the morphology chooser drop down?  If so, arrow down to 'Verb' and press Enter to add 'V', and then right arrow over 'Piel' and down arrow to 'Pual' and press Enter to add 'P' to the string. If that's all you need at this point, press the spacebar to close the morph chooser. This is opposite the keystrokes used by the Windows version--there is an open case to make them consistent.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 23 2011 4:11 PM | Locked

Melissa,

This will not populate on the Mac. It is a known issue, and has been for a while. He needs to know which letters to type that correspond to the items in the morphology. Is there a list available in the help files or the wiki for each of the morphology schemes?

Posts 13415
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 23 2011 5:14 PM | Locked

Richard Maguire:
I looked in the help menu for the appropriate letters to use to populate the search bar, but I am having trouble finding anything. For example, I want to search on a Hebrew verb in Pual, but creating something like you had for Greek with 'VP' does not seem to return anything, and I am unsure if the search is looking for Piel instead. What would I type of I wanted to find all Pual forms of a verb? Maybe then I could figure out how morph search is working, and then even add some filtering. I am new to all of this, so I very much appreciate what I can find in these forumns.

The morphology codes are all available on the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Morphology_Codes#Andersen-Forbes_Hebrew_Morphology (scroll down for other Hebrew morphologies).

Posts 4077
Melissa Snyder | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 24 2011 11:32 AM | Locked

John Fidel:

Melissa,

This will not populate on the Mac. It is a known issue, and has been for a while. He needs to know which letters to type that correspond to the items in the morphology. Is there a list available in the help files or the wiki for each of the morphology schemes?

It is populating on my Mac in 4.2a RC 1. I do get a crash, which is known, when I click the blue arrow to close the morphology chooser, but if I press Enter to select the item and press the spacebar to close the popup, it populates without problem.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 24 2011 12:05 PM | Locked

I can only get it to populate if I type the letters. Clicking on the options in the drop down will not populate the search. It has been this way for a long time.. hence the title of the topic. I am open to any suggestions, but I do not think this works as it should or as it does in L4Win.

Posts 4077
Melissa Snyder | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 24 2011 1:19 PM | Locked

John Fidel:

I can only get it to populate if I type the letters. Clicking on the options in the drop down will not populate the search. It has been this way for a long time.. hence the title of the topic. I am open to any suggestions, but I do not think this works as it should or as it does in L4Win.

You're right, it's not working as in Windows. Try these steps for now:

Using the mouse, double click on an item under Parts of Speech to add Noun, etc., then single click on associated items to add those. Then click on the blue arrow to close the popup.

Using the keyboard, after typing @, arrow down with keyboard to a Part of Speech, press Enter to select, then arrow over and up or down and press Enter to select the next item. Then press spacebar to close the popup.

Edit:  Development is aware of the differences. I don't know the status at this point of making the steps consistent with Windows.

Posts 14
Richard Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 25 2011 5:40 AM | Locked

Mark - thanks so much for the link to the morphology codes. Once I type these in and add a space after the last code, my search results work! This is great news.

Melissa - thanks as well for the thoughts. My system seems to act similar to what John has mentioned. Clicking and double clicking only get the drop down items to highlight in blue, and using the arrow keys works the same way. Nothing from the drop menu makes it up to the search line. If you get results while I still don't, at least it seems we might be getting closer to a universal fix.

It will be great when this gets fixed, but now that I have some codes I can enjoy some of the benefits.

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Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 25 2011 5:57 AM | Locked

Thanks for trying Melissa, but this simply will not populate. I will patiently wait for a fix as this should intuitive.. click on what you want; click on the blue arrow to close the popup, click on enter to search.

 

Posts 4077
Melissa Snyder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 25 2011 7:34 AM | Locked

John Fidel:

Thanks for trying Melissa, but this simply will not populate. I will patiently wait for a fix as this should intuitive.. click on what you want; click on the blue arrow to close the popup, click on enter to search.

 

Thanks for giving those steps a try. I've reported the problems you and other Mac users are having with this as well as the inconsistency with Windows.

Update:  Morph picker issues in the Mac version are fixed in 4.3 Beta 5 (release notes updated).

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