Until all are saved

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Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 13 2011 5:53 AM
I realize this is not a Logos question, but I wanted to ask as many people as I could. Does anyone know if there is a verse in the Bible that teaches that the Rapture will not happen until the last elect is saved? I have always heard this all my life and ministry, but have never been able to find a verse. I think that it is a logical conclusion, but am wondering if it has become Church tradition and not part of the Scripture. Thanks.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:23 AM

Searching all text in Logos library for: rapture WITHIN 50 WORDS saved => finds many results.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:35 AM

Are you sure that you aren't speaking of the oft quoted "until the gospel is preached to the 4 corners of the earth" quote?

Robert Pavich

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Bob Fuller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:36 AM

You won't find a verse that says this. First, "Rapture" is a pre-millennial term. And with John's description of the end of the millennium, with believers and unbelievers, it is obvious that there are some elect coming to God during the millennium, after the Rapture. Also, the Pre-Tribulational rapture would call for many to come to God during the Tribulation, also after the Rapture.

I suspect that preachers were indicating that God had a specific number to be saved before the Rapture, and when they were, the Lord would come. I do not believe there is any verse that teaches this. God has His timetable,  that is what He is following.

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Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:37 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Searching all text in Logos library for: rapture WITHIN 50 WORDS saved => finds many results.

Keep Smiling Smile

I appreciate that. However, can you limit that (I am not at my Logos computer at this time) to just Bible text. Because the word rapture is not in any of the major English versions and there is not a Greek word for it. Rapture is from the Latin. I am looking for just a verse. Thanks alot for your help,

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:39 AM

Or this could be it:

 

“And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. ” (Matthew 24:31, NASB95)

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:39 AM

Robert Pavich:

Are you sure that you aren't speaking of the oft quoted "until the gospel is preached to the 4 corners of the earth" quote?

No, because I do not believe the idea is in the Scriptures. I was asked by someone and I am just trying to verify my thinking.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:40 AM

Michael Huffman:
No, because I do not believe the idea is in the Scriptures. I was asked by someone and I am just trying to verify my thinking.

 

Michael, I actually agree with you....I've just heard people quote it....that's all...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:46 AM

Bob Fuller:

You won't find a verse that says this. First, "Rapture" is a pre-millennial term. And with John's description of the end of the millennium, with believers and unbelievers, it is obvious that there are some elect coming to God during the millennium, after the Rapture. Also, the Pre-Tribulational rapture would call for many to come to God during the Tribulation, also after the Rapture.

I suspect that preachers were indicating that God had a specific number to be saved before the Rapture, and when they were, the Lord would come. I do not believe there is any verse that teaches this. God has His timetable,  that is what He is following.

Thanks, Bob. Such was my thinking as well. Thanks for the verification. I pointed them to Matthew 24:22 (this is a Church member where I Pastor, and believing in the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace, I have never taight this. They must have picked this up somewhere else), and the fact that there are tribulational elect, indicating that not all elect will be saved during the Church age.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:48 AM

Robert Pavich:

Michael Huffman:
No, because I do not believe the idea is in the Scriptures. I was asked by someone and I am just trying to verify my thinking.

 

Michael, I actually agree with you....I've just heard people quote it....that's all...

Robert,

I did not take offense at your quote. Just making sure I am giving the right information. Thank you very much!!

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 6:54 AM

I wonder, Michael, if the verse you are thinking of is in Romans 11:25 = that a partial hardening has happened to the nation of Israel UNTIl the fulness of the Gentiles; then all Israel will be saved. Many believe that we are presently in the Church Age and when the last person to be saved (or brought into the Body of Christ), then the Church will be raptured and then begins Daniel's 70th week, where God devotes His energy towards bringing the nation of Israel to repentance = then all Israel will be saved (Romans 11:26).

Charlene

Posts 688
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 7:17 AM

How about Matthew 24.14?

 

This gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

That is the closest one I can think of. Not that all the elect will be saved, but that the whole world has heard the Gospel.


Jerry

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777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 7:25 AM

Robert Pavich:

Or this could be it:

 

“And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. ” (Matthew 24:31, NASB95)

 

Hi Robert,

that would be the 7th or last trump, when the real Jesus returns.  At the 6th trump Satan arrives in Jerusalem as the supernatural entity that he is and pretends to be Christ.  This is when the great falling away takes place.  Satan will be here saying that he is here to rapture people away while he's putting on his supernatural pretending-to-be-Jesus show.  This is when family members will turn their relatives over to death.  Satan is death, but people that are unlearned in the word about the chronological order of events and adhere to the false rapture doctrine will unwittingly follow Satan.  Everyone without the seal of God in their foreheads will follow Satan, thinking that he is Jesus.

So, it follows that those with the seal of God in their foreheads will refuse to worship this supernatural entity that pretends to be Jesus and consequently, the real Christians will be thought of as evil by a world full of hoodwinked Satan followers.

During this time, the 2 witnesses will be here and Satan, pretending to be Jesus, will have a hand in them being done away with, but after 3-1/2 days they will stand, which is when the 7th trump takes place.  At the 7th trump ALL people will move from physical bodies to spiritual bodies.

Those that follow Satan when he is here in his role as antiChrist (anti in Greek means instead of or spurious) will no longer be virgins spiritually and will not partake in the kingdom wedding.  Knowing the chronological order of things is very important.  Knowing that the false rapture doctrine that teaches people to worship the first supernatural entity that shows up SAYING that he is Jesus will lead many to a spiritual death is good information to have in your forehead, which is how you are sealed - through knowledge.

While Satan is here pretending to be Jesus, the elect of God will allow the Holy Spirit to speak through them as in the Book of Acts and the Book of Joel.  The true sign of the Holy Spirit speaking is that all people will hear what is spoken in their own native ear.  Man cannot fake this and only God can do it.

When Jesus was in the wilderness, Satan tried to tempt Jesus into worshiping him.  That was to serve as an example to you.  Satan wants to be worshiped.  Satan is a supernatural entity and God is allowing Satan to do this so that God can see who studied and who listened to the traditions of men and men who call themselves to teach the Word of God.  False teaches can't teach the truth, because they don't know it, so they teach the rapture, which serves to pull people right into Satan's trap.  Oh, they may look and sound holy, but it's the false teaching that will be doing the killing.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 7:36 AM

Michael Huffman:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Searching all text in Logos library for: rapture WITHIN 50 WORDS saved => finds many results.

Keep Smiling Smile

I appreciate that. However, can you limit that (I am not at my Logos computer at this time) to just Bible text. Because the word rapture is not in any of the major English versions and there is not a Greek word for it. Rapture is from the Latin. I am looking for just a verse. Thanks alot for your help,

Search can be limited to bible text in Logos - would need to use different search criteria - hence choose to search entire Logos library looking for articles with rapture and saved - found a variety of results including several relevant to topic with Bible verses, including 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 and Matthew 24:27-31.

Also choose to abide with forum guidelines and avoid theological discussion => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 7:53 AM

Michael Huffman:
I realize this is not a Logos question, but I wanted to ask as many people as I could. Does anyone know if there is a verse in the Bible that teaches that the Rapture will not happen until the last elect is saved? I have always heard this all my life and ministry, but have never been able to find a verse. I think that it is a logical conclusion, but am wondering if it has become Church tradition and not part of the Scripture. Thanks.

Michael,

There are several scripture that speak of the (I’m sure you are aware of this already) fullness of time or that intimate a time table [chronistic events] so I think you are right in that it is a "logical" conclusion based on the pairing up of many scriptures. I would also agree that it has become a church tradition even though the weight of the said scriptures isn't nearly as conclusive as it has been taught in the past.

That being said I think there is a certain amount of assuredness that we can take by faith that there is "a number, a day, a fulfillment".  I use these terms loosely. Though God is not anachronistic so it would seem reasonable that certain criteria or chronology would have to occur.

I'm Not putting any theological significance on these examples in terms of your question but just for instance (although there is the interpretive difference between kairos and chronos):
Daniel 8:23 (Aharit and Hatem)
Galatians 4:4 (Pleroma and Chronos)
Ephesians 1:10 (Pleroma and Kairos)

 add a grain of salt... maybe two.

Posts 56
David Langer | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 10:03 AM

Rev 6:11 might be what these preachers had in mind --

Revelation 6:11 (ESV) Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

This is the closest I come to anyway. . .

2 Peter 3:9 is also often interpreted to mean --  all the chosen come to faith

2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

 

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 10:06 AM

David Langer:
2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

 

From the quote that's probably not what he was going for but that's accurate in it's meaning...not until the whole of the elect has reached repentance.....

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 4
Rodney Underwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 10:29 AM

This scripture is about as close as you're going to get. 

 

 

Mt 24:14.

 

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 10:40 AM

Jerry Bush:

How about Matthew 24.14?

 

This gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

That is the closest one I can think of. Not that all the elect will be saved, but that the whole world has heard the Gospel.


Jerry

Thanks, Jerry. Keep in mind that Matthew 24 is a tribulational chapter, not a chapter regarding the Church age. Such understanding greatly changes the way that you interpret.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 10:44 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Michael Huffman:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Searching all text in Logos library for: rapture WITHIN 50 WORDS saved => finds many results.

Keep Smiling Smile

I appreciate that. However, can you limit that (I am not at my Logos computer at this time) to just Bible text. Because the word rapture is not in any of the major English versions and there is not a Greek word for it. Rapture is from the Latin. I am looking for just a verse. Thanks alot for your help,

Search can be limited to bible text in Logos - would need to use different search criteria - hence choose to search entire Logos library looking for articles with rapture and saved - found a variety of results including several relevant to topic with Bible verses, including 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 and Matthew 24:27-31.

Also choose to abide with forum guidelines and avoid theological discussion => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx

Keep Smiling Smile

I apologize, but this is not a theological discussion. I simply asked some fellow users if they could do a quick search through Logos since I was not at my computer. This is not at all divisive or flametory.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

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