searching for all forms of a word

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Howard Silverman | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jan 21 2011 6:37 AM

i am trying to search all of a hebrew phrase regardless of the prefix or suffix of each word. I unchecked "match all word forms" but i still get only the verses that have the phrase exactly as it is written in the search. I am trying to put an asterisk at the begiing and the end to see if that will help but it will not let me put an asterisk at the end of the phrase. could someone explain how i can search for all forms of a word or phrase regardless of prefix or suffix?

thank you!

howard silverman

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 7:42 AM

I am not sure I understand your question completely. Are you searching for the lemma? If so, how are you searching for it? Are you using the morph search; right clicking and selecting lemma then search then searching the resource?

If you can, post a screen shot of your search and I can try to help you.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 7:57 AM

Howard, a similar question arose yesterday about doing this with a single Greek word. It cannot be done. In Greek a wildcard search finds the letters you specify and if after the string, words with letters after that search string (in Hebrew that asterisk would be to the left). However it will not find words in which the base string letters have changed due to their use in the text. You can try this with a single Hebrew word to see what happens. I assume that to search a phrase you are putting it in quotation marks? I think in this case the search simply ignores the asterisks if it works at all.

Bottom line: there is not a way to do this in Logos.

Yesterday's discussion is here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/28919.aspx

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Posts 82
Howard Silverman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 8:17 AM

thanks for the responses. sorry that i ddi not look closely enough at yesterdays posts. 

i was specifically looking for a phrase that sometimes includes a preposition before the first word and then a pronominal suffix after the last word. i am sure i can do it by the process of elimination looking at each word.

thanks

howard

 

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 8:38 AM

On a more general note:

Howard Silverman:
I unchecked "match all word forms" but i still get only the verses that have the phrase exactly as it is written in the search.

You're supposed to check Match All Word Forms in order to get all the word forms. Smile Yes, I too find that confusing... 

 

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 9:00 AM

I believe "Match all word form" only works on English searches, so ignore it when you are going a true morph search (might still be handy if you are running an English search on a Reverse Interlinear).

Howard, could you please post a screenshot showing what you are trying to do, what sort of phrases you want to search for? I suspect there might be a work-around and more details would be helpful.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 9:51 AM

Howard Silverman:

thanks for the responses. sorry that i ddi not look closely enough at yesterdays posts. 

i was specifically looking for a phrase that sometimes includes a preposition before the first word and then a pronominal suffix after the last word. i am sure i can do it by the process of elimination looking at each word.

thanks

howard

 

Could you be more specific regarding what you are seeking?  There might be a way to accomplish your purpose.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 82
Howard Silverman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 12:50 PM

i wish this was some heavy theological point, but i am practicing doing searches. in Gen. 43:16 there is the phase "l'asher al bayto" (sorry for the lack of transliteration ettiquette!). it is translated as "household steward." in NAS95 i wanted to see if that phrase is used elsewhere in the Hebrew bible. i did an english search on "household steward" and found several instances of its usage. However, i noticed that in Enlish there were more hits than a hebrew search. the reason is because in hebrew i could only find passages with the preposition lamed before asher  and the masculien suffix after bayt.    there are other instances but without the prepostion and without the suffix so i am tryiong to learn how to do a search and get all of the instances o the word regardless of prefixes and sufixes. it goes without saying that this would be of great value!  (I would have sent a screenshot but i am not sure how to do that.)

thanks

howard

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 1:18 PM

Howard Silverman:

i wish this was some heavy theological point, but i am practicing doing searches. in Gen. 43:16 there is the phase "l'asher al bayto" (sorry for the lack of transliteration ettiquette!). it is translated as "household steward." in NAS95 i wanted to see if that phrase is used elsewhere in the Hebrew bible. i did an english search on "household steward" and found several instances of its usage. However, i noticed that in Enlish there were more hits than a hebrew search. the reason is because in hebrew i could only find passages with the preposition lamed before asher  and the masculien suffix after bayt.    there are other instances but without the prepostion and without the suffix so i am tryiong to learn how to do a search and get all of the instances o the word regardless of prefixes and sufixes. it goes without saying that this would be of great value!  (I would have sent a screenshot but i am not sure how to do that.)

thanks

howard

The לַֽאֲשֶׁ֣ר is the preposition "to" as in "he spoke to" while the אֲשֶׁ֣ר is the relative pronoun "who, whom."  I have therefore left it out. 

My search string (morph search) is lemma:עַל.2.P BEFORE 1 WORD lemma:בַּיִת.1.n

This produces 146 hits in 72 verses.  Since there are two words in the search string this means that there are actually 73 hits for the combination.  Not all of these are what we seek.  E.g. in the very first hit (Gen 19.4) it is simply used of those who gather "at" Lot's house since עַל is also a proximity operator meaning "at."  You'll need to review them to see which ones meet your specifications. 

 Edit:  This search string is for Westminster 4.2 morphology.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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