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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2011 10:58 PM

Mark Barnes:
... But where's the quote from Apple that says every Kindle book offered on Amazon's website must also be offered in-app?

iPhone Development Blog includes descriptions of 3 section 11 additions to Apple App Store review guidelines => http://iphoneincubator.com/blog/

Observation: not know how Apple will enforce new guidelines 11.13 (add in app purchasing for content) and 11.14 (remove links to web store) - third blog option is intriguing - wonder if Apple would approve application(s) that comply with 11.14, but not 11.13 (e.g. Kindle without links to Amazon's web store)

Previous Apple iOS App Store review guidelines available => http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/app-store-guidelines.pdf - section 11 ended with guideline 11.11

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Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 5:53 AM

Mark Barnes:

Tony Thomas:
"Amazon must also implement Apple's single-click in-app purchasing of content; Apple would skim 30% off the top of all such purchases, however.

I've read it before. But where's the quote from Apple that says every Kindle book offered on Amazon's website must also be offered in-app? It's Computerworld's paraphrase of what she said - and they've got it wrong. The actual quote from Trudy Muller is this:

"We are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchase." (source - although the commentary in that source has also misinterpreted the statements)

Here's the crucial bit that several people have misunderstood: "if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app".

So, as long as the app itself doesn't allow customers to purchase books there is not a problem. Nothing in what has been said suggests that software companies can't allow apps to access material purchased off-app. It's only been said that the apps themselves can't allow such a purchase to be made from the app itself.

From reading this:

"Later Tuesday, Apple spokeswoman Trudy Muller confirmed that those rules apply not only to newspaper and magazine publishers, but also to content sellers like Amazon.com, which offers a Kindle app for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad."

It sounds like Gregg got independent verification from Trudy.  I am checking with him for verification.

 

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Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 7:55 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
iPhone Development Blog includes descriptions of 3 section 11 additions to Apple App Store review guidelines

It is worth noting that the review guidelines are not the developer agreement. There is leeway on how these guidelines are applied. That said, 11.12 is certainly limited to subscriptions but 11.13 is certainly intended to include any digital content purchased through iOS. The key phrase is, "This applies to both purchased content and subscriptions". It is interesting to note that the developer agreement (not the guidelines) specifically states that anything purchased within iOS may only be used on iOS. This would present a challenge to companies offering a dual-purchase model (website and in-app).

It looks like there is a little wiggle room in 11.14 - linking to a page to buy a particular book would be ruled out, but can an app still link to a web-based product page? Probably not, but the guideline doesn't explicitly rule that out. 

If Apple rigidly applies 11.13, it will certainly present a problem for companies like Logos and Amazon. I could not find anything in the developer agreement requiring in-app purchase of external content, so Logos does follow the developer terms, but if the guidelines require it, the app may still be rejected anyway. 

It is important to note, however, that Amazon just released an update to their iOS Kindle app and it was approved and distributed via the app store - this even after the Sony app was rejected. So Apple is at least for now approving apps that have external content without in-app sales.

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 8:20 AM

According to Gregg, he confirmed with Trudy that Amazon must drop its link to the Kindle store and offer in-app purchasing.   So, it seems that Logos would be held to the same requirements.

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Posts 117
Lionel B Dyck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 8:37 AM

This discussion has continued way beyond its usefulness - why worry about what may be as there is nothing any of us can do about it. Logos will work with Apple with our best interests in mind and whatever happens GOD is still in control and there are more important issues to deal with.

I did find the discussion interesting at first but it takes up time to follow the threads with nothing productive or useful that I can glean from them.

Once something concrete is announced from Logos then we can discuss any appropriate action - if any should the decision be something that negatively impacts us.

Respectfully

Posts 228
Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 9:04 AM

it's funny that the whole world seems to be up in arms because Apple wants to charge publishers 30%. There is an interesting article (see link) that explains how Amazon and Barnes & Noble charge much higher rates than that but no one seems to worry about that. This has gotten blow way out of proportion. read the article. How will Apple's policy effect Logos? I don't know, I don't believe it will but we'll find out soon enough.

http://www.macworld.com/article/157945/2011/02/app_store_subscriptions.html?lsrc=top_1

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 12:49 PM

Stephen Weasler:

it's funny that the whole world seems to be up in arms because Apple wants to charge publishers 30%. There is an interesting article (see link) that explains how Amazon and Barnes & Noble charge much higher rates than that but no one seems to worry about that. This has gotten blow way out of proportion. read the article. How will Apple's policy effect Logos? I don't know, I don't believe it will but we'll find out soon enough.

http://www.macworld.com/article/157945/2011/02/app_store_subscriptions.html?lsrc=top_1

You are confusing publishers with resellers.  It is one thing for a publisher to hand over 30% and keep 70%.  It is another thing for a reseller to hand over 30% and keep 10-20%.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 1:16 PM

Tony Thomas:

You are confusing publishers with resellers.  It is one thing for a publisher to hand over 30% and keep 70%.  It is another thing for a reseller to hand over 30% and keep 10-20%.

No, he's not. He's saying that Amazon charges newspapers 30% (or more) and Apple will too. Whether it's right or wrong, it is the same.

Posts 147
Scott H. Clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 1:22 PM

I am confused as to why people are getting upset with this discussion.  Obviously, if there is an issue with the Logos app being acceptable to Apple after June 30, then it is important to make that clear.  Several people in this thread, myself included, were planning iPad purchases in order to run the Logos app.  Whether or not that app will be acceptable after June 30 is a big deal to some of us. 

What is clear is that there is a LOT of uncertainty that has been caused by the latest Apple fight with Sony.  Several app makers have said they will pull their apps from the Apple store.  True, they may be over-reacting, or even reacting properly to a circumstance that doesn't apply to Logos, but the changes are certainly not clear to many.  Discussions like this are helpful in hashing those things out and helping us figure out what is really going on.  I, for one, really appreciate the links to the various sources that have been posted.  Had it not been for this thread, I may have purchased a new iPad with no clue that there was even a hint of an issue with the very app I was purchasing it to run.

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 3:13 PM

Scott H. Clark:
Several app makers have said they will pull their apps from the Apple store.  True, they may be over-reacting, or even reacting properly to a circumstance that doesn't apply to Logos, but the changes are certainly not clear to many.

Historical observation: NBC pulled out then returned to iTunes => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/22/nbc_strongly_opposed_to_apples_99_cent_itunes_rental_model.html

Scott H. Clark:
Discussions like this are helpful in hashing those things out and helping us figure out what is really going on.  I, for one, really appreciate the links to the various sources that have been posted.  Had it not been for this thread, I may have purchased a new iPad with no clue that there was even a hint of an issue with the very app I was purchasing it to run.

Likewise have learned a lot following links and researching - did generate some ideas that have been summarized in new thread => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/29983.aspx

Concur with wondering about future of Logos application on iOS devices.   Have enjoyed using Logos on iPad in church services; Thankful for Logos library content access offline.  Planning to continue using Logos Bible Software in church - currently not know if Apple device will be appropriate in few months (even though Apple is # 1 mobile device manufacturer worldwide and makes great products for consumer usage).

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Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 5:50 PM

Mark Barnes:

Tony Thomas:

You are confusing publishers with resellers.  It is one thing for a publisher to hand over 30% and keep 70%.  It is another thing for a reseller to hand over 30% and keep 10-20%.

No, he's not. He's saying that Amazon charges newspapers 30% (or more) and Apple will too. Whether it's right or wrong, it is the same.

My point is that 30% may be a fair rate for publishers and content providers.  It isn't for retailers (like Logos and Amazon) as it is essentially a money grab for virtually all of the profits.

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Thornell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 24 2011 3:22 AM

Very....

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 12 2011 4:15 AM

Apple app restrictions will apply to e-books

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/apple-app-restrictions-will-apply-e-books.html

 

 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 12 2011 6:31 AM

thebookseller.com:

Apple will require "all publishers of content-based apps" available via its app store to remove links that offer that content for sale outside of it, the company has said.

Exactly. So long as Logos removes the five links from the home page, it will be fine.

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 12 2011 7:45 AM

Mark Barnes:

thebookseller.com:

Apple will require "all publishers of content-based apps" available via its app store to remove links that offer that content for sale outside of it, the company has said.

Exactly. So long as Logos removes the five links from the home page, it will be fine.

What about this:

"Apple confirmed it would now require publishers to allow in-app purchases, and that if an offer was made "outside the app" the same--or better--offer must be made inside the app. Apple will take a cut of 30% of all in-app purchases, made via its app store, but will still allow content to be used that has been purchased externally."

It sounds to me like they'll have to do more than remove the links.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 12 2011 8:50 AM

Todd Phillips:

Mark Barnes:

thebookseller.com:

Apple will require "all publishers of content-based apps" available via its app store to remove links that offer that content for sale outside of it, the company has said.

Exactly. So long as Logos removes the five links from the home page, it will be fine.

What about this:

"Apple confirmed it would now require publishers to allow in-app purchases, and that if an offer was made "outside the app" the same--or better--offer must be made inside the app. Apple will take a cut of 30% of all in-app purchases, made via its app store, but will still allow content to be used that has been purchased externally."

It sounds to me like they'll have to do more than remove the links.

 

It says the same thing in this article:

"Apple had previously said the "in-app clause" was already part of the developer guidelines, but was not enforced, and said that publishers had to allow in-app purchases along with links to external sources.


http://www.thebookseller.com/news/apple-app-restrictions-will-apply-e-books.html

 

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Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 12 2011 8:51 AM

Todd Phillips:

Mark Barnes:

thebookseller.com:

Apple will require "all publishers of content-based apps" available via its app store to remove links that offer that content for sale outside of it, the company has said.

Exactly. So long as Logos removes the five links from the home page, it will be fine.

What about this:

"Apple confirmed it would now require publishers to allow in-app purchases, and that if an offer was made "outside the app" the same--or better--offer must be made inside the app. Apple will take a cut of 30% of all in-app purchases, made via its app store, but will still allow content to be used that has been purchased externally."

It sounds to me like they'll have to do more than remove the links.

 

It says the same thing in this article:

"Apple had previously said the "in-app clause" was already part of the developer guidelines, but was not enforced, and said that publishers had to allow in-app purchases along with links to external sources.


http://www.thebookseller.com/news/apple-app-restrictions-will-apply-e-books.html

 

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Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 12 2011 8:53 AM

Todd Phillips:

Mark Barnes:

thebookseller.com:

Apple will require "all publishers of content-based apps" available via its app store to remove links that offer that content for sale outside of it, the company has said.

Exactly. So long as Logos removes the five links from the home page, it will be fine.

What about this:

"Apple confirmed it would now require publishers to allow in-app purchases, and that if an offer was made "outside the app" the same--or better--offer must be made inside the app. Apple will take a cut of 30% of all in-app purchases, made via its app store, but will still allow content to be used that has been purchased externally."

It sounds to me like they'll have to do more than remove the links.

 

It says the same thing in this article:

"Apple had previously said the "in-app clause" was already part of the developer guidelines, but was not enforced, and said that publishers had to allow in-app purchases along with links to external sources.


http://www.thebookseller.com/news/apple-app-restrictions-will-apply-e-books.html

 

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Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 12 2011 1:12 PM

Tony, and others:

First let me say that logos is working on improvements for the app, so that means to me that they are not too worried about this issue with Apple for what ever reason, which might include the fact that it is impossible to purchase a book for the Ipad, Iphone, Itouch.  you can purchase a book for your computer, and by grace or Logos they will with the help of the logos app allow you to see it on your idevice... but you can not purchase anything directly for the idevice.  Now this becomes even more true in that if they did have to put a link in the app to sell a book, since they don't sell ibooks, then 30% of nothing is still nothing.  Logos has never sold a single file for the Idevice... only for your computer which the logos app will not run on!  some may see this as semantics, but at this point there is nothing that apple can do when the files are not sold.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 12 2011 9:14 PM

Kelly Todd:
First let me say that logos is working on improvements for the app, ...

Thankful for Logos application improvements Geeked on iOS devices.

Kelly Todd:
... but at this point there is nothing that apple can do when the files are not sold.

Apple's option is removing eBook reader applications from Apple's App Store because in-app purchasing not added to iOS application.  However, Apple's in-app purchasing can not handle complete eBook catalogs:

http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2011/02/22/amazon-bn-kobo-know-their-ios-apps-will-be-pulled-in-june/

Wonder if Amazon's Kindle, Barnes & Noble Nook, and Kobo applications will be available in App Store after June 30 (their book catalogs are immensely too big for in-app purchasing).  Looking at Logos web site, found 5,177 products => http://www.logos.com/products/search?sort=pricelo&pageSize=60 (too many for Apple's in-app store).  Amazon already working on web based Kindle reader:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000579091

Kelly Todd:

Tony, and others:

First let me say that logos is working on improvements for the app, so that means to me that they are not too worried about this issue with Apple for what ever reason, which might include the fact that it is impossible to purchase a book for the Ipad, Iphone, Itouch.  you can purchase a book for your computer, and by grace or Logos they will with the help of the logos app allow you to see it on your idevice... but you can not purchase anything directly for the idevice.  Now this becomes even more true in that if they did have to put a link in the app to sell a book, since they don't sell ibooks, then 30% of nothing is still nothing.  Logos has never sold a single file for the Idevice... only for your computer which the logos app will not run on!  some may see this as semantics, but at this point there is nothing that apple can do when the files are not sold.

Historical observation: in 2009, Logos published per user licensing for resource content => http://blog.logos.com/archives/2009/10/license_and_registration_please.html and http://www.logos.com/ArticleViewer/440

Logos resource content is no longer purchased for your computer.  Logos licenses resource content to an individual's library that can be used in any Logos Bible Software application, including desktop computers, mobile devices, and web browser.  Some publishers restrict content usage to desktop computers.  Logos 4 desktop applications use your Logos library licenses to download content to your computer for your use.

Libronix 3 and Logos 4 Bible Study applications are now free - can use both versions with your Logos library.  Logos web order page https://www.logos.com/user/orders has resource download instructions for Libronix 3 and Logos 4 applications on PC and Mac.

As a Logos user, I have the option of not using any Logos desktop application to access content in my Logos library.  Currently, desktop Logos applications have more features than mobile applications and web browser.

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