A Gift to ALL Catholics *smile*

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011 7:08 AM

Peace to all!           And!                       Joy in the Lord!

              I always share that I am part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.  *smile*

There is only one true church composed of all true believers.

I don't want to get into any theological discussions that in any way abuse the Forum Guidelines.

              But, today I want to share something that I find very beautiful.....    *smile*

MJ has given us some details about the term "catholic" in the past, e.g. this old, old post: (from her point of view)

MJ. Smith Replied: Sat, Nov 21 2009 5:08 PM

Robert Pavich: Roman Catholic

 

Robert, you may already know this but may I give a technical adjustment? Yes, I know this is 'off topic' but it's interesting trivia.

Roman Catholic is short-hand for Roman Rite Catholic. The Catholic Church includes:

  1. Roman liturgical tradition
    1. Latin (Roman) Rite
    2. Mozarabic Rite
    3. Anglican use (recently expanded)
    4. Ambrosian Rite
    5. Braga Rite
    6. Dominican Rite
    7. Carthusian Rite
    8. Carmelite Rite
  2. Alexandrian liturgical tradition
    1. Coptic Catholic Church
    2. Ethiopian Catholic Church
  3. Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition
    1. Maronite Church
    2. Syriac Catholic Church[
    3. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
  4. Armenian liturgical tradition:
    1. Armenian Catholic Church
  5. Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition:
    1. Chaldean Catholic Church
    2. Syro-Malabar Church
  6. Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
    1. Albanian Greek Catholic Church
    2. Belarusian Greek Catholic Church
    3. Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church[
    4. Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci
    5. Hungarian Greek Catholic Church
    6. Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
    7. Macedonian Greek Catholic Church
    8. Melkite Greek Catholic Church
    9. Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic
    10. Russian Catholic Church
    11. Ruthenian Catholic Church
    12. Slovak Greek Catholic Church
    13. Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
    And yes, there are a few others but I can't find their names at the moment.

So I guess there is 'catholic' (single, early church), Catholic (American default of Roman Catholic), CATHOLIC (all the rites that somehow ultimate are in communion with the Bishop of Rome a.k.a. the Pope) and CATHOLIC (add in schismatics but not heretics)

Now I promise to sit down and shut up.Zip it!            * * * * *

         Just smiled again, MJ!  As I did the first time I read it... O.K.!               My gift!            Particularly to MJ and Damian, Brother and Sister!  *smile*  BTW   I am Lutheran! I've been to the Sistine Chapel!  What a wonderful experience!      Now, courtesy of the Vatican, you can go there too!  Right now! Be patient with yourself as you navigate this web site.  Move your mouse around.  Fantastic technology!  You can see the ceiling also, the floors, the walls, zoom in and out, listen to marvelous music on your speakers.    Wow! http://www.vatican.va/various/cappelle/sistina_vr/index.html

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 18867
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 7:18 AM

That is a beautiful website!! Beautiful music and art! Thank you for the gift.

Posts 8608
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 7:29 AM

It is breathtaking in it's scale and breadth.  

I am curious, are the wall hangings concealing more fresco's or are there plain walls beneath, or perhaps other areas beyond?

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 97
Andreas Holmberg | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 8:32 AM

Thank you for the link to the Sistine Chapel.

I've been to the Vatican Museum twice and the chapel is outright awesome! Plus it's where the cardinals gather when they are to elect a new pope.

However, the chapel is much more peaceful and serene on the internet than in real life. So many people squeezing to get in and guards yelling out every other minute to "keep silent" and not to take photos. Nonetheless the chapel and the whole Vatican Museum together with the Egypt Museum in Cairo and the British Museum in London are, in my mind, the top three museums of the world.

Pastor in Stockholm, Church of Sweden

Posts 18867
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 8:45 AM

Andreas Holmberg:
However, the chapel is much more peaceful and serene on the internet than in real life. So many people squeezing to get in and guards yelling out every other minute to "keep silent" and not to take photos.

I've been told that the trick to being able to see it with fewer people is to go first thing in the morning, rush past all the other museum rooms and go straight to the Sistine Chapel. You'll be the first ones there and can have a bit of peace and quiet while the rest of the tourists are looking at other (wonderful) stuff in the museum. Then if you want to go see the rest of the museum, you do have to pay for a second entrance ticket and start over again, because they funnel you through one way and there's no returning. But it's worth the double price of admission to have the Sistine Chapel almost to yourself for a few moments. EDIT: Then again, now that I've divulged this secret online, everyone's going to want to do it...

Posts 291
Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 9:27 AM

I did the "reverse entry" trick to the Sistine when I visited the Vatican Museums in college (1982).  The chapel is nomally at the end of the one-way  tour.  I went "backwards" and arrived there first.  I was in the chapel alone for 15 minutes!   Unforgettable.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 11:28 AM

A (now retired) curator of the Vatican museums was a Western province Dominican (as is my parish). For several years the church auction included a private tour of the Sistine chapel that began 1 hour before the chapel opened. Shall we say the bidding was frenzied?Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 11:46 AM

An historic protestant does not see himself as a schismatic, he sees himself as adhering to the Church and refusing to embrace apostasy. 

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 12:34 PM

Mike your post is not only not on topic, it is also dangerously close to breaching the Forum Guidelines.  Don't forget to read them.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 1011
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 1:40 PM

My post was in direct response to the topic being discussed and in particular the statement made that CATHOLIC included schismatics. How on earth can it not be on topic when it interacts directly with the opening post? I also attempted not to be polemical.

To label someone a schismatic is a very serious allegation, I was just pointing out that this was an assertion that is a matter of perspective.

Why not point out the original allegation was " dangerously close to breaching the Forum Guidelines"?

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 1:57 PM

Mike--sure, I wouldn't like being labeled a schismatic, either.  But I took it all with a grain of salt.  I think it is your more extreme "embrace apostasy" bit (that didn't need to be added to prove your point) that was the "kicker."

(and I come from a branch that sometimes has graphed themselves as rooted completely to the "New Testament church" and completely bypasses 1700 years of history and ecclesiology.  I obviously don't embrace that view point, even as I am still part of that crowd)

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 2:11 PM

Thanks for the view.  I right clicked on it and went full screen and then clicked print screen and sent it to my desktop background.  I will enjoy looking at it for a while.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 3:09 PM

Mike Pettit:
An historic protestant does not see himself as a schismatic,

And Catholics do not see historic protestants as schismatics. This is not the language of my church.

Posts 3688
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 3:13 PM

Damian McGrath:
And Catholics do not see historic protestants as schismatics. This is not the language of my church.

Welcome Damian - I trust life is calming down a bit for you.  Let us know how it is going.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 175
Silent Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 3:18 PM

                                                                             Hmm HHHMMMmmm~~~ Hmm

Posts 1011
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 3:20 PM

I will wallow in irenic silence.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 3:53 PM

Mike Pettit:
To label someone a schismatic is a very serious allegation, I was just pointing out that this was an assertion that is a matter of perspective.

If you read closely you will note that I did not indicate at all who was schismatic or heretical. I assumed that historical Protestant Christians would place themselves as the first meaning of the term - the small c catholic.

When you are more familiar with the forums and my posts you will understand why my boss used to complain that I wrote too concisely and too precisely. He kepts reminding me it didn't cost any more to add additional wordsWink

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 4:04 PM

Damian McGrath:

Mike Pettit:
An historic protestant does not see himself as a schismatic,

And Catholics do not see historic protestants as schismatics. This is not the language of my church.

Editted:

Damian - I trust you noted that I did not apply that language to historic Protestants either. I was just ensuring that I wasn't accused of including some of the early sects that were semi-Christian. ... it took how many months for someone to think I was referring to Protestants when the original point was that there are a variety of senses of  "Catholic" - universal sense, popular sense, more accurate popular sense and 'shared communion' sense. I omitted from the discussion any group that would not apply "catholic" to themselves.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 4:10 PM

Mike Pettit:

An historic protestant does not see himself as a schismatic, he sees himself as adhering to the Church and refusing to embrace apostasy. 

Your sentence is technically correct. But not all believe in one true church!

Some readers may be unfamiliar with perspectives that reject one universal church. Check out these terms:

Close Communion (Necessary because a member of one independent congregation is not a member of others)

"Baptist Briders" (multiplicity of the brides of Christ, acceptance proven by the parable of 10 virgins)

Ecclesia in connection with an end days rapture. (Idea: the one church comes into existence only when the many churches are raptured)

Baptist Succession (Idea: the true church precedes the crucifixion of Christ and was started by John the Baptist. Jesus was baptized into this church and it has an unbroken succession from the beginning. Believers have been called by many names other than "Baptist".) I actually have a book that asserts this claim.

There are other viewpoints expressed through church polity and "Restoration Movements" like Campbelism, Pentecostalism, Mormonism.  Look at these resources:

Perspectives Series (4 vols.)

Zondervan Counterpoints Collection (14 vols.)

I have worshiped with IFB congregations since 1996 but find myself embracing the one (universal) body of Christ because of Romans 6:3-5 . I know we can play the semantics game and say all true believers are of the "family of God" but then the denial  they have been baptized into the same body seems contradictory.

ps: I also believe the Church began on the day of Pentecost.  Angel

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 4:24 PM

Mike Pettit:

My post was in direct response to the topic being discussed and in particular the statement made that CATHOLIC included schismatics. How on earth can it not be on topic when it interacts directly with the opening post? I also attempted not to be polemical.

To label someone a schismatic is a very serious allegation, I was just pointing out that this was an assertion that is a matter of perspective.

Why not point out the original allegation was " dangerously close to breaching the Forum Guidelines"?

 

Let's just say that referring to someone's views as "apostasy" is rather unfriendly.  There is surely a better way to express yourself such as "embrace a view which does not, in our opinion, comport with the scripture"?  We can disagree and even detail our disagreements without what basically amounts to calling names.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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