A Gift to ALL Catholics *smile*

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Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 11:18 AM

 

Brad Stogsdill:

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? (1st John 5:1-5)

 

One chapter earlier: Smile

 

1 John 4:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

 James 2:19

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

 

 

Posts 273
Brad Fry | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 11:33 AM

The slurs and stereotypying have come from both sides in this thread. We tend to overlook it when it's not against us.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 11:33 AM

Brad Stogsdill:

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? (1st John 5:1-5)

Very good.  Of equal importance is

 

1 John 4:7–21 (NRSV)

7Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.  8Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.  9God’s love was revealed among us in this way: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him. 10In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.  11Beloved, since God loved us so much, we also ought to love one another.  12No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.  13By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

14And we have seen and do testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world.  15God abides in those who confess that Jesus is the Son of God, and they abide in God.  16So we have known and believe the love that God has for us.

God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them.  17Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness on the day of judgment, because as he is, so are we in this world.  18There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love.  19We love because he first loved us.  20Those who say, “I love God,” and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen.  21The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 11:39 AM

K.J.:

One chapter earlier: Smile

 

1 John 4:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

 

 James 2:19

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

1 Corinthians 1:10–14 (NRSV)

10Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same purpose.  11For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters.  12What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”  13Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I would remind you of the words of Benjamin Franklin: "If we do not all hang together, we shall most certainly all hang separately."  We have an enemy of Jesus Christ which is on the march in the form of Islam.  I do not say "radical Islam", but ALL Islam.  We see expurgated versions of the Koran / Quran in English (we even have one in Logos).  These have been cleaned up so as not to alarm those who speak English.  Make no mistake about it, those who follow Islam do not guide themselves by the politically correct English versions.  There was recently an article in the National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/260288/who-attacked-lara-logan-and-why-andrew-c-mccarthy) in which Andrew McCarthy asks "Who Attacked Lara Logan, and Why?" then answers the question he has posed.  It lies in passages such as Surah 4:23-24.  In these the offensive material has largely been toned down.  They intend to subjugate the Christian world and brutalize any who will not submit to Islam.  We have not faced such a danger since the Moors overran Spain and threatened France and also were knocking at the very doors of Vienna.  They subjected much of the previously Christian world to Islam including Northern Africa (including Egypt), Asia Minor, and what is today Syria and Iraq.  Will Europe and the United States be next?  They will if we fight amongst ourselves.

I would encourage Logos to do its own translation of the Quran in a very faithful version -- assiduously avoiding softening the harsh parts.  This would make clear to all the insidious nature of Islam.  Its prophet is a false prophet, a prophet of Satan himself, and a paedophile.  Its god is not the God of the bible but Satan himself since God would not countenance that set forth in the Quran.  Islam is interested in submission (much like the Obama regime), not in conviction.  Remember:  "He who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 11:41 AM

George Somsel:
The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also.

It is possible to love our brothers and sisters without supporting the organization that is deceiving them.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 11:54 AM

K.J.:
The fomenting was initiated in the very title of the thread.

You just don't know the original poster & author of the thread title. MCM  would never desire to instigate division among believers. He was only sharing something of beauty with all readers.

Matthew 25:34-40     Mother Teresa did good works in the name of Jesus. It matters not what her earthly affiliations were.

Mark 9:41  The beautiful artwork Milford linked to was like a cup of cold water. It was refreshing and satisfying.

K.J.:
It is possible to love our brothers and sisters without supporting the organization that is deceiving them.

And did God tell you to correct all erroneous theology? You have your work cut out for you.

We should not judge people by a label. If I remember correctly MCM is Lutheran. The past actions of others doesn't really matter. I have enough sins of my own I can not pay for. I will not attempt to answer for another's.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:00 PM

George Somsel:
We have an enemy of Jesus Christ which is on the march in the form of Islam.

You pretend to promote peace and harmony on the forums, Then open this can of worms.   As our friend Silent Sam would say:

                                                                              Hmm HHHMMMmmm~~~ Hmm

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:04 PM

Matthew C Jones:

And did God tell you to correct all erroneous theology? You have your work cut out for you.

We should not judge people by a label. If I remember correctly MCM is Lutheran. The past actions of others doesn't really matter. I have enough sins of my own I can not pay for. I will not attempt to answer for another's.

As you boldly point out what you consider my errors?

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:10 PM

K.J.:

George Somsel:
We have an enemy of Jesus Christ which is on the march in the form of Islam.

You pretend to promote peace and harmony on the forums, Then open this can of worms.   As our friend Silent Sam would say:

                                                                              Hmm HHHMMMmmm~~~ Hmm

But in your opinion it is perfectly acceptable to attack a fellow Christian. 

Hmm Duuuuh~~~ Hmm 

Perhaps we can have a diet of worms.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:17 PM

Brad Fry:
you can not just "big tent" everyone and make blanket judgments about them, good or bad. That is unwise. This is not a brotherhood. It's not the church

You are right Brad. I've said it before & I'll say it again. There is NO WAY POSSIBLE to reconcile all the different theological beliefs espoused in the content of Logos resources. They are mutually exclusive and by and large intolerant of other views. To adhere to one set of beliefs I have to reject 90% of the rest.

Milford's original post was not asking anyone to convert. (For the evangelicals among us: It is not an "altar call.") Most believers have a spiritual heritage. Most of us are proud of our own, some are ashamed of their own. The original post was only an attempt to share beauty from MCM's own spiritual heritage.

This did not need to become another "War of the Roses."  Not every forum reader even claims the name of Jesus. But those of us who do need to defer judgement of others to the Lord. He knows who are his.  1 Kings 19:14 ,  1 Kings 19:18

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 171
Abi Gail | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:21 PM

George Somsel:

I would remind you of the words of Benjamin Franklin: "If we do not all hang together, we shall most certainly all hang separately."  We have an enemy of Jesus Christ which is on the march in the form of Islam.  I do not say "radical Islam", but ALL Islam.  We see expurgated versions of the Koran / Quran in English (we even have one in Logos).  These have been cleaned up so as not to alarm those who speak English.  Make no mistake about it, those who follow Islam do not guide themselves by the politically correct English versions.  There was recently an article in the National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/260288/who-attacked-lara-logan-and-why-andrew-c-mccarthy) in which Andrew McCarthy asks "Who Attacked Lara Logan, and Why?" then answers the question he has posed.  It lies in passages such as Surah 4:23-24.  In these the offensive material has largely been toned down.  They intend to subjugate the Christian world and brutalize any who will not submit to Islam.  We have not faced such a danger since the Moors overran Spain and threatened France and also were knocking at the very doors of Vienna.  They subjected much of the previously Christian world to Islam including Northern Africa (including Egypt), Asia Minor, and what is today Syria and Iraq.  Will Europe and the United States be next?  They will if we fight amongst ourselves.

I would encourage Logos to do its own translation of the Quran in a very faithful version -- assiduously avoiding softening the harsh parts.  This would make clear to all the insidious nature of Islam.  Its prophet is a false prophet, a prophet of Satan himself, and a paedophile.  Its god is not the God of the bible but Satan himself since God would not countenance that set forth in the Quran.  Islam is interested in submission (much like the Obama regime), not in conviction.  Remember:  "He who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

This looks like something Glenn Beck would scribble on a chalkboard,    Is that where you found it? Stick out tongue

~

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:26 PM

K.J.:
As you boldly point out what you consider my errors?

I have not & will not address your theology. I would probably agree with a bulk of it ( Matthew shivers here )

I am only asking you to reconsider your application of it to flog a fellow Christian for holding out a sweet smelling rose. 

Go read all the posts made by Milford Charles Murray and you will see his words are those of a gentle soul, a "Peacemaker." Within that context I think you will agree he wasn't espousing division, conversion or condemnation.  Unity in love is what I see. And that is something the Lord said all Christians should want.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 117
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:32 PM

George Somsel:
Islam is interested in submission (much like the Obama regime)

Now that should serve to quell the divisiveness. When the Tea Partiers crawl out from under their respective rocks, things will be much more peaceful. 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:44 PM

Abi Gail:

George Somsel:

I would remind you of the words of Benjamin Franklin: "If we do not all hang together, we shall most certainly all hang separately."  We have an enemy of Jesus Christ which is on the march in the form of Islam.  I do not say "radical Islam", but ALL Islam.  We see expurgated versions of the Koran / Quran in English (we even have one in Logos).  These have been cleaned up so as not to alarm those who speak English.  Make no mistake about it, those who follow Islam do not guide themselves by the politically correct English versions.  There was recently an article in the National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/260288/who-attacked-lara-logan-and-why-andrew-c-mccarthy) in which Andrew McCarthy asks "Who Attacked Lara Logan, and Why?" then answers the question he has posed.  It lies in passages such as Surah 4:23-24.  In these the offensive material has largely been toned down.  They intend to subjugate the Christian world and brutalize any who will not submit to Islam.  We have not faced such a danger since the Moors overran Spain and threatened France and also were knocking at the very doors of Vienna.  They subjected much of the previously Christian world to Islam including Northern Africa (including Egypt), Asia Minor, and what is today Syria and Iraq.  Will Europe and the United States be next?  They will if we fight amongst ourselves.

I would encourage Logos to do its own translation of the Quran in a very faithful version -- assiduously avoiding softening the harsh parts.  This would make clear to all the insidious nature of Islam.  Its prophet is a false prophet, a prophet of Satan himself, and a paedophile.  Its god is not the God of the bible but Satan himself since God would not countenance that set forth in the Quran.  Islam is interested in submission (much like the Obama regime), not in conviction.  Remember:  "He who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

This looks like something Glenn Beck would scribble on a chalkboard,    Is that where you found it? Stick out tongue

I suppose the reference to Glenn Beck is supposed to be a putdown, but I assure you that I wrote it myself.  If you don't like the truth, tough.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:45 PM

K.J.:
I remind you of the title of this thread.   (A Gift to ALL Catholics *smile*)   If people don't want their pet denomination investigated and commented on, Don't include it in the title or make it central in the original post.

K.J.:
The fomenting was initiated in the very title of the thread. An attempt to sell snake oil will inevitably prompt some to challenge the salesman.

Some people here -- most notably KJ -- must have totally missed that this thread was not started by a [Roman] Catholic! It was started by someone I believe is a Lutheran. One, I might add, who though he was being nice and inclusive when he referred to everyone here as Catholic, in the sense of the Creed, and probably didn't have a clue that some people might take offense. 

No [Roman] Catholic here put that word in the title. No [Roman[ Catholic here has made any attempt to "sell snake oil".  So why are [Roman] Catholics the ones being attacked??? If you want to "challenge the salesman", at least have the decency to challenge the OP, who made the sale, and not those completely innocent of that post! And why not do it by simply and kindly informing him that his innocent and kindly meant words were nevertheless offensive to you, instead of going straight into attack mode? You can't expect everyone here to know exactly what might be offensive to everyone else. I'm pretty sure, though, that you know very well when you yourself are being offensive, and you deliberately choose to be so, which is something very very different from accidentally offending someone while trying to be nice!

Oh, yes, in case you've missed it: I'm Lutheran too, so don't try to blame this post as well on Catholics! Though if I hadn't already been pretty catholic, threads like this would certainly make me so. The chasm between the poison on one side and the humility on the other is astonishing! The fruit and the tree, you know...

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:46 PM

Luap:

George Somsel:
Islam is interested in submission (much like the Obama regime)

Now that should serve to quell the divisiveness. When the Tea Partiers crawl out from under their respective rocks, things will be much more peaceful. 

Who is hiding under a rock?  While I have never attended any Tea Party event, I am very much in agreement with it.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 273
Brad Fry | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:48 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Milford's original post was not asking anyone to convert. (For the evangelicals among us: It is not an "altar call.") Most believers have a spiritual heritage. Most of us are proud of our own, some are ashamed of their own. The original post was only an attempt to share beauty from MCM's own spiritual heritage.

Milford strikes me as a wonderfully sweet guy. Not a doubt in my mind about that. Also no doubt that the original post was simply an attempt to share something beautiful. It was the inclusion of why everyone fits under the umbrella of "Catholic", including the "schismatics" that I believe many bridled at. I'll have to admit that my brow furrowed most when MJ expressed her disbelief that people could get so worked up about this because she "was raised as a Campbellite and even in that framework - Restoration "Protestant" can't see the problem nor imagine that my Church of Christ (with music think Standard Publishing flavor) pastor grandpa / elder dad could find a problem." Campbellite? "Even in that framework"? Hardly the words of peacemaking.

No one likes for their faith to be criticized. That's not to say there's not a place for that. But this is not that place, whether you are Catholic, Baptist, Methodist or Church of Christ. And no one likes for their faith to be ridiculed, period. I am grateful that my faith has been informed by Martin Luther, John Calvin, Alexander Campbell and C.S. Lewis. But most importantly I want my faith to be from Jesus Christ through his Word. Logos Bible Software is a tool toward that aim. This forum is at its best when it is used for that purpose.

 

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:51 PM

Matthew C Jones:
Go read all the posts made by Milford Charles Murray and you will see his words are those of a gentle soul, a "Peacemaker."
 

I totally understand Milford's motives. I never believed that his motives were divisive. However, when he prefaced his post with a paragraph which seemed to promote the theory that all Christians must be catholic(on some level, by some definition)...like it or not. Debate was inevitable.

If you were to start a similar thread and substitute the name of any denomination, then try to sell the theory that everyone is part of that movement...like it or not, what do you think the outcome would be?

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:54 PM

George, George.. I was going to complement you for some of your posts here earlier today, and then you have to bring up islam and politics and destroy all the good you did. Shame!

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2011 1:02 PM

fgh:

George, George.. I was going to complement you for some of your posts here earlier today, and then you have to bring up islam and politics and destroy all the good you did. Shame!

Like Hester Prin in The Scarlet Letter I will wear that which was intended as an affront as a badge of honor.  Someone needs to mention the elephant in the room.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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