Why You Need 'Jastrow'

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Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 11:37 AM

The print version of Jastrow is nigh unreadable. When Eerdmans announced they were republishing, my Aramaic prof got all excited until he learned they weren't re-setting it, which meant another unreadable reprint.

I'd love to have Jastrow AND Sokoloff. For now, we'll take what we can get.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 308
James W Bennett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 2:54 AM

Mark Barnes:
Yes, for translation it's original language, LXX and TC stuff that you obviously need most of. Talmuds are much more useful for interpretation than translation. I'm sure you have most of these already, but I'd suggest:

If you read Aramaic/Syriac then I would also suggest the Targums and the Peshitta. They often times give us excellent insights into the texts.

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James W Bennett

http://syriac.tara-lu.com/

Posts 308
James W Bennett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 3:47 AM

David Knoll:
Denise don't you think Logos should offer us Sokoloff instead? It is the de facto standard...  I have Jastrow and Sokoloff (the 4 volumes) in print and I see little reason to pay so much for Jastrow. As an Aramaic lexicon it  is outdated.

His Syriac lexicon has already been suggested here. It's also critical to have his other works such as this. However, we do have some of the fruits of the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon Project (CAL), which spawned the Sokoloff-Aramaic lexicon. There is a Targum Lexicon that comes with the purchase of the Targums from Logos for only $30. While it provides word meaning in the various dialects of Aramaic I believe it is limited to the vocabulary of the Targums. And if you are working with the Talmud you have to remember that even if a word entry exists in CAL the meaning can be very different from that used in the Talmud, something like 3-4 centuries of language evolution :) Also CAL is limited to word meaning only. An example where the three validly overlap can be found below.

Needless to say, because of the evolution of Aramaic (and its closely related languages such as Syriac), the number of millennium the the language(s) was spoken, advances in Aramaic scholarship, and the importance of Aramaic to all aspects of Biblical Studies (OT, NT, and Patristics)  we need AS MANY Aramaic and Syriac lexical resources as we can get.

Sokoloff

Jastrow

CAL

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James W Bennett

http://syriac.tara-lu.com/

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 6:35 AM

Thank you James! You went to a lot of trouble, especially with the examples. I appreciate it.


Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 7:08 AM

Denise Barnhart:

(2) You've been reading up on Risto Santala, where he points out the importance of the treatment of the messiah in the targums. Lucky for you, you have the primary targums in your library (clogging it up?), but they're in aramaic. No problem ... you double-click on the aramaic, at which point you discover 'the problem':

- HALOT is 'the best' ... it just lacks the lexical items found in the targums

- As noted above, if Logos does get a 'match', it ends up bouncing all over your lexicons ... HALOT, Gesenius, CAL, TWOT. etc.

- If you had 'Jastrow' with prioritization, you'd have a nice smooth 'read'.

(3) You're excited about the Logos Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud Collection coming out in March. 50 volumes and organized by Neusner too (matching your Mishnah resource by the way). But you need a resource that can let you move across all those volumes. Yes ... you need 'Jastrow', which also gives you example usages and so much more.

While I agree that anyone interested in studying Talmud specifically needs Jastrow (and NOW is the best time to get it), but I need to comment on what I think might be a misconception.  Unless I am mistaken, the Talmud offering currently on prepub and about to ship shortly does not have the Aramaic as the above seems to imply.  Hopefully we will get it BEFORE TOO LONG, but I'm not privy to that information.  From the product page on the Talmud. 

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george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 7:17 AM

Ben:

The print version of Jastrow is nigh unreadable. When Eerdmans announced they were republishing, my Aramaic prof got all excited until he learned they weren't re-setting it, which meant another unreadable reprint.

I'd love to have Jastrow AND Sokoloff. For now, we'll take what we can get.

I'm sure the Logos edition of Jastrow will be quite readable and not simply a photo reproduction.  I have PDFs of Jastrow and don't find it to be so very unreadable.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1364
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 7:22 AM

Sure. I can blow up the pdfs. I was trying to show another reason why it will be nice to have in Logos, namely that you don't have to deal with the old printed text.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 8:55 AM

Ben:

Sure. I can blow up the pdfs. I was trying to show another reason why it will be nice to have in Logos, namely that you don't have to deal with the old printed text.

Even with the PDFs which I can resize, I can show you a very good reason for wanting it in Logos.  My PDF version comes in 89 files.  Try finding something in that.  If it were only a little more difficult to find something, I might consider whether I really wanted to know what it says in the first place.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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