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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 24 2012 1:45 PM

NB.Mick:
This description is the same for any resource collection, whether these are base packages or not. Compare NIV:

I was referring to the description/name of the Catholic collections on the NAB page  i.e. library vs base package.

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GeoPappas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 24 2012 2:50 PM

GeoPappas:

Does anyone know what changes were made to the NAB for the NABRE?

Anybody?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 24 2012 2:57 PM

Dave Hooton:

NB.Mick:
This description is the same for any resource collection, whether these are base packages or not. Compare NIV:

I was referring to the description/name of the Catholic collections on the NAB page  i.e. library vs base package.

Ahhh! I must admit, it took some minutes to understand which name you were referring to. You're right, Logos calls the new catholic base packages "xxxx Library" - it's easy to overlook once a string of characters invokes a mental understanding of the item described. I went back to the NIV page and marked in blue those new catholic libraries and in red our common base packages:

 

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 24 2012 3:16 PM

GeoPappas:

GeoPappas:

Does anyone know what changes were made to the NAB for the NABRE?

Anybody?

I found an official release statement here: http://catholicbibles.blogspot.com/2011/01/nab-revision-nabre-official.html 

A reviewer here http://tiberriver.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/home.viewReview/review/2085 claims the changes are all in the OT, the NT being the same. I do have NABRE - was pre-issued to catholic base package owners, maybe to get some typo reports etc to flatten out before the release of the individual resource - and on spot checking only a few passages, this seems to be true, including footnotes, but there are now cross-references to other bible verses in the NABRE NT. The OT footnotes have been retained, some slightly reworked and some added.

Opened both to compare NAB to NABRE (double-click to enlargen picture)

 

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 25 2012 6:47 AM

MJ. Smith:

fgh:
Biblical Novellas?

For the Maccabees? Someone has gone nuts

Essentially what I thought...

However, the introduction to those Biblical Novellas only talks about Tobit, Judith and Esther, so I'm wondering if that whole section wasn't supposed to be indented one step, as a subsection to The Historical Books, and then back to the main list for Maccabees. That would make a whole lot more sense. Could you (or someone else) check a paper NABRE?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 25 2012 7:56 AM

fgh:
the introduction to those Biblical Novellas only talks about Tobit, Judith and Esther, so I'm wondering if that whole section wasn't supposed to be indented one step, as a subsection to The Historical Books, and then back to the main list for Maccabees. That would make a whole lot more sense.

I think you are right - after all they misrepresented the whole structure and display it as if it was only one level deep. So you find NT, its prefaces, "the gospels", Mt through Jn, Acts, NT Letters, Romas etc. all on the first level instead of all under NT, Mt through Jn under The Gospels etc.

Note this has not changed from the NAB.

fgh:

MJ. Smith:

fgh:
Biblical Novellas?

For the Maccabees? Someone has gone nuts

NABRE's introduction to the Historical Books has

Where the Hebrew Bible comprises three sections—Torah or Pentateuch; Prophetic Books, both the Former and the Latter Prophets; and the Writings, including everything else in the Hebrew Canon—the Christian Old Testament has traditionally been arranged along different lines. After the Pentateuch comes a series of books that continue, in roughly chronological order, the history of Israel. (... Joshua through Nehemia ... )

The Books of Maccabees give us two overlapping but somewhat differing accounts of Jewish resistance to Seleucid persecution in the early second century B.C., and the assumption of power by the leaders of the resistance, the Maccabees or Hasmoneans.

The traditional designation of these books as “historical” describes their scope and contents, and is not meant to assert factual verifiability; while they contain much valuable historical information, in the narrow sense, their purpose is theological rather than historiographic.

The Books of Tobit, Judith, and Esther are sometimes reckoned among the historical books, but they differ from the writings sketched above, and call for special treatment; see the introduction to those books. 

This intro must be the one titled "Biblical Novellas". it says

 

...The Books of Tobit, Judith, and Esther are often grouped together. They are stories told to instruct the people concerning the ways of God, to encourage them in critical times, and to entertain. They are aids to the imagination. While they may contain kernels of historical fact, these stories are told primarily to illustrate truths that transcend history.

Compare this to the NAB intro to The Historical Books:

 

The historical books include 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, 1 and 2 Maccabees. To these are added the special literary group of Tobit, Judith, and Esther. (.... Samuel through Nehemia, Maccabees ....)

 

Tobit, Judith, and Esther are examples of free composition-the religious novel used for purposes of edification and instruction. 

I read this as no different attidude of the publishers to these three books and in both cases as not referring to Maccabees as novellas.

 

 

 

 

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 25 2012 8:48 AM

Very well argued! I've sent a mail to logos4feedback@logos.com.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 28 2012 1:33 PM

Dave Hooton:
MJ. Smith:
The NABRE is included in some base packages and library builders.

The NAB is not in the Logos Base Packages  (Home, Scholars,  Gold, etc) but is in some Catholic Library collections. The latter would likely be updated after a while. 

Last November I bought the Catholic Library Builder because the product description said that was the way to go if I already had a "base package"  The newly created Catholic Base Package appeared to be the same content as the Catholic Library Builder and the "redundant" content of all the non-Catholic base packages. I am grateful for the huge savings I got on resources I was already committed to buying. But when the Catholic Scholar's base package was added it seems as if there are resources included in it that are not in the two lesser offerings. I wonder if I would have fared better buying the Catholic Scholars package after negotiating a discount for having Portfolio already. Here are the various groupings of resources. Logos does in fact advertise at least one as a base package:

I mention this in relation to the NABRE because I just noticed it is about to ship from Pre-Pub. It is one of those licenses included in the Library Builder and I had to be careful to cancel my Pre-Pub order so I won't pay for twice.

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 28 2012 2:45 PM

Super Tramp:
Last November I bought the Catholic Library Builder (...)  But when the Catholic Scholar's base package was added it seems as if there are resources included in it that are not in the two lesser offerings. I wonder if I would have fared better buying the Catholic Scholars package after negotiating a discount for having Portfolio already

I ran this through the package comparison spreadsheet: 

These are the resources (* = resource licences) contained in Catholic Scholar's (CS) but not in Portfolio nor in the the Catholic Library Builder (CLB) - as per the information I used back then to make the sheet. You may have them nevertheless from errors in the description/sheet compilation/other resource purchases. Anyway I don't think that it was wrong to go for CLB instead of CS 

  • New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear*
  • An Exposition of the Acts of the Apostles, by John MacEvilly
  • Logos Hymnal Media Resource
  • Liturgies Eastern and Western Collection (2 vols.), by C. E. Hammond and F. E. Brightman
  • Lake's Apostolic Fathers English Reverse Interlinear (Brannan)
  • Apostolic Fathers in Greek and English (Holmes Edition)
  • Symbols of Church and Kingdom: A Study of Early Syriac Tradition, by Robert Murray

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 28 2012 3:03 PM

Is New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear out yet?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 28 2012 3:11 PM

Dominick Sela:

Is New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear out yet?

At least I don't have it .... 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 28 2012 4:15 PM

NB.Mick:
 
Dominick Sela:
 Is New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear out yet? 

At least I don't have it ....  

Is this the same thing by a little bit different name?:

English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NRSV Apocryphal Texts

It is still "Under Development".

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 28 2012 4:24 PM

Super Tramp:

NB.Mick:
 
Dominick Sela:
 Is New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear out yet? 

At least I don't have it ....  

Is this the same thing by a little bit different name?:

English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NRSV Apocryphal Texts

Yes, and it also says on the resource page that it's part of Cath. Scholar's.

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 29 2012 3:56 AM

Thanks - ordered! Big Smile

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fgh:

How do you like this classification?:

It's not a "classification". All it indicates is that the "Biblical Novellas" article precedes the books of Tobit through 2 Maccabees. (If it were truly a classification, those other books would be second-level headings underneath it.)

This matches the Table of Contents as shown in the book itself: logosres:nabre;art=toc

(You may find similar "classification" issues for Acts and Revelation, which also don't have book-specific introductions.)

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 29 2012 9:13 AM

Bradley Grainger:

fgh:

How do you like this classification?:

It's not a "classification". All it indicates is that the "Biblical Novellas" article precedes the books of Tobit through 2 Maccabees. (If it were truly a classification, those other books would be second-level headings underneath it.)

This matches the Table of Contents as shown in the book itself: logosres:nabre;art=toc

(You may find similar "classification" issues for Acts and Revelation, which also don't have book-specific introductions.)

Bradley,

thanks for looking into this. The issue fgh is discussing here is that the ToC treats a tree-structure (which evidently has some branches that go to different levels) as if it was flat. The wrong impression of a "classification" comes since the introductions have no chapters and therefore look different due to the missing triangle.

I can't look into the book itself right now, but even if it was the same there, Logos should do better and reflect the structure that makes sense. I see very well that no one introduced this organization with the new resource, as NAB is the same, but still I think the usage experience would be better if this was changed.

my 0.02 EUR

Mick

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Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 29 2012 9:38 AM

Bradley is correct. We interpreted the headings as being proper to the introductions rather than as super-headings for the books that follow. This is consistent with the table of contents, which shows them as interspersed with the books rather than providing a clear hierarchical strucuture:

The confusion occurs because the headings lack the word "Introduction". We'll add "Introduction" to our table of contents entries make this clearer.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 9:23 AM

Louis St. Hilaire:
The confusion occurs because the headings lack the word "Introduction".

No, the confusion arises because both common sense and the publisher sees Maccabees as Historical Books, not "Biblical Novellas", but the TOC gives the definite impression that they're considered to be Novellas. And the Contents gives an even stronger impression, given the capital letters. But checking the only 'Look inside' Bible I found on Amazon, I saw it had the same problem, so I guess this issue arose long before the book arrived at Logos.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 9:50 AM

NB.Mick:

These are the resources (* = resource licences) contained in Catholic Scholar's (CS) but not in Portfolio nor in the the Catholic Library Builder (CLB) (...)

 

  • New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear*
  • An Exposition of the Acts of the Apostles, by John MacEvilly
  • Logos Hymnal Media Resource
  • Liturgies Eastern and Western Collection (2 vols.), by C. E. Hammond and F. E. Brightman
  • Lake's Apostolic Fathers English Reverse Interlinear (Brannan)
  • Apostolic Fathers in Greek and English (Holmes Edition)
  • Symbols of Church and Kingdom: A Study of Early Syriac Tradition, by Robert Murray

Symbols...is in Portfolio, and both the Hymnal and the two Apostolic Fathers were in older base packages, like the one Matthew has. 

When I made my comparison, Liturgies and the NRSV Apocrypha RI were the only two I didn't have. Since then they have added Exposition, and, very recently, the Catechism.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 10:26 AM

fgh:

Symbols...is in Portfolio, and both the Hymnal and the two Apostolic Fathers were in older base packages, like the one Matthew has. 

When I made my comparison, Liturgies and the NRSV Apocrypha RI were the only two I didn't have. Since then they have added Exposition, and, very recently, the Catechism.

Thanks. It seems they either added Symbols to Portfolio recently or it got overlooked back when another user and I built the comparison sheet. I updated my file.

Regarding Catechism: I'm unsure about these later changes to base packages outside of real package release updates. Will I get this automatically as part of my Catholic Scholars, even though it was not listed as a part of this when I bought CS back in December? Then I could save $10 by cancelling my Pre-Pub order.....

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