IVP vs ISBE & the Tyndale Commentaries

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Posts 172
CL | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Mar 13 2011 3:50 AM

I have browsed the forums recently searching for the Logos communities' wisdom on the best dictionaries and commentary sets. I have concluded that the IVP Reference Collection or the ISBE is the dictionary for me. Would a few folks be willing to compare and contrast the 2 dictionaries? They seem to both be loved and used by many.

I also am planning on getting the Tyndale Commentaries. I have the Expositor's Bible Commentary (EBC). Are these 2 sets similar? I am looking for something different than the EBC.

Thank you for your advice is advance!

CL

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 4:34 AM

I would go with IVP over ISBE for these reasons

  • The Black Dictionaries are unique, approaching a topic from different vantage points (i.e. Gospel study, Pauline Study). There is nothing like them. What they lack in general info you can typically make up with one of the single volume dictionaries in the base packages or the New Bible Dictionary which is in the IVP collection.
  • IVP is newer and more up-to-date (I'm not knocking ISBE it's helpful)
  • Dictionary of Biblical Imagery - Excellent resource.

Ideally I would want both but the IVP Essentials collection is just a better deal. Also, Portfolio has ISBE in it so if you think there's a chance of getting that you'll get the best deal if you wait for the base package upgrade to get that resource.

Posts 172
CL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 5:03 AM

Kevin - Thanks for your advice. I am now praying and considering toward a Platinum upgrade. Are there any dictionaries in the Platinum upgrade that compare to any of the top favorite dictionaries such as, IVP, ISBE, AYBE, ZEB, etc?

The main reason I would go ahead and invest into the Platinum upgrade is to get a few solid commentary sets that would seem to far out weigh getting the Tyndale set. I see that Pillar, NAC, NIGTC, UBS Handbook, Charles Simeon, Early Church Fathers are offered. I saw it mentioned that the Baker Exegetical was also offered in the Platinum upgrade on a forum thread but when I checked i didn't see it in the listing. 

All advice is welcome!

CL 

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 5:12 AM

CL Pearce:
Are there any dictionaries in the Platinum upgrade that compare to any of the top favorite dictionaries such as, IVP, ISBE, AYBE, ZEB, etc?

There are a number of decent single-volume dictionaries, my favorite of the Platinum offerings is Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. However, I like the New Bible Dictionary in the IVP collection better. AYBD is not in any package, I picked it up a couple years ago on the 12 Days of Logos sale.

CL Pearce:
The main reason I would go ahead and invest into the Platinum upgrade is to get a few solid commentary sets that would seem to far out weigh getting the Tyndale set. I see that Pillar, NAC, NIGTC, UBS Handbook, Charles Simeon, Early Church Fathers are offered. I saw it mentioned that the Baker Exegetical was also offered in the Platinum upgrade on a forum thread but when I checked i didn't see it in the listing. 

Platinum is great! It's what I have. It has excellent coverage in the New Testament but the Old Testament is a little spotty if you don't count the Public domain commentaries.

Unfortunately the Baker content is no longer in Platinum. Baker asked Logos to take their titles out of the base packages. For some people the removal of the Baker titles devalued Platinum too much. You'll have to make that judgment call whether you want Gold or Platinum based on the comparison page. Personally I would still go with Platinum but if you go with Gold you might have more funds to grab some individual titles that are more appealing to you.

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 5:26 AM

Gold will get you the UBS Handbooks, my commentary of choice.  If you are based in England, IVP reference bundle is cheaper from another source, but it seems tio be no cheaper in the USA.  Sad about Baker, but That seems not to have been logos' decision.  I've got scholars and am now picking out the resources I want as I feel the need (or want???) 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 9:42 AM

The IVP dictionaries are quite different to ISBE:

  • ISBE has medium-sized articles on pretty much every topic (the website says 9,000 articles). On the other hand, the IVP dictionaries have much longer articles on a smaller number of topics.
  • ISBE deals with theology, but also with people, places and things. IVP only really deals with theological issues.
  • ISBE deals with the whole Bible in an equal way. IVP deals with subjects from a particular slant (Paul, Background, Gospels, etc.).

If you're thinking about ISBE, I'd also consider Anchor (more expensive, but also more detailed). There are several threads comparing the two, particularly this one: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22656/169214.aspx

That said, based on the other resources you mention, I think ISBE would be best for you (it would complement Tyndale and EBC very well).

Now, to compare Tyndale and EBC. I would say that Tyndale is generally of a higher quality than EBC (i.e. most Tyndale volumes would be better than most EBC volumes). But they're quite similar in intent and style. Attached is a screenshot open at random:

Posts 172
CL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 10:20 AM

Thanks for your help Mark!

I have another question. If I am considering upgrading to Platinum should I call customer service about the Baker resources taken out? Would they consider dropping the price or adding resources equivalent? Has anybody called them to ask? It seems a little unfair to charge the same amount for Platinum now in comparison to when they had the loads of Baker resources included in it.

Thanks for the advice.

 

CL

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 2:03 PM

CL Pearce:
I have another question. If I am considering upgrading to Platinum should I call customer service about the Baker resources taken out? Would they consider dropping the price or adding resources equivalent? Has anybody called them to ask? It seems a little unfair to charge the same amount for Platinum now in comparison to when they had the loads of Baker resources included in it.

I think you will have a tough time getting much, but it is worth a try. Logos knows what it took out, didn't offer anything in replacement, and didn't change the price. Doesn't seem fair to me but each buyer has to decide.

I would like you to have the IVP dictionaries but agree with Mark's analysis that the ISBE and IVP offerings are too different for a direct compare. You do get a full Bible dictionary in the IVP offer: the New Bible Dictionary, and a couple of other dictionaries: The New Bible Dictionary, and The New Dictionary of Theology, plus the two IVP Bible Background Commentaries. It is a powerful offering, but not the same as the ISBE. (I wouldn't want to be without either.)

BTW: If you do go for the IVP Reference Collection it will pay to shop around. Logos is not the only company that sells it.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 172
CL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 3:54 PM

They not only took out resources, arguably the best set of commentaries was taken out (Baker Exeg). Why wouldn't they try to find some replacement for it? I have seen numerous posts of people not upgrading to Platinum because of this very reason. They don't think it is a good value anymore. They are losing business... At the very least, shave off the bottom line price.

If I do upgrade to Platinum, I'll be holding off on IVP, ISBE and the Tyndale Commentaries. Upgrading would be quite the investment.

Thanks for all your help.

CL

 

Posts 2283
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 6:11 PM

The dropping of Baker volumes was undoubtedly a renewal decision on the part of Baker.  Publishers are like any other business trying to hold up their income in a shrinking market--book biz today is difficult. Publishers are offering books costing $25 that end up being on Amazon for a penny inside of a year.

Every time people hesitate to make a purchase and find out they missed out on a deal, they complain. If I had a nickel for each one I have heard, I'd have gone with Portfolio by now. 

I went with Platinum just days before I heard that the package had changed. If you do the math, it's still a great deal. I would do it again now in a heartbeat. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 7:35 PM

And if I had a nickel for every complaint I've heard I would have NICOT/NICNT by now...;-)

Douglas

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 8:07 PM

I have an idea: Why not let logos include Socio-Rhetorical Commentary Series (8 vols.) to replace BECNT 8 vols. and then just throw in whatever other volumes to make up for the lost baker content.  This would be good for those who did not get to upgrade to Platinum LE and now have to upgrade to Platinum KF.

Now logos could charge us LE owners a small fee to be able to have access to the "new content." Wouldn't this be such a great idea!!!??? OH YES IT WOULD! Stick out tongue

Douglas

Posts 172
CL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 8:28 PM

I'm not here to start a small forum riot. haha! The issue is just glaring me in the face. 

I have the Socio-Rhetorical and I love it! Definitely my favorite so far.

CL

Posts 263
Greg Corbin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 13 2011 8:49 PM

CL,  do not have the IVP but have heard good things about it. However, I do have the ISBE and find it to be one of my most valuable resources. I use it every single week as I prepare to preach/teach. You won't go wrong with it. I have the ZEB in print and it is very good - however I have not opened it once since getting the ISBE in Logos. 

As for dictionaries included in the Platinum upgrade, if you get up to Gold, you will have the Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible. It is a good, solid resource - certainly not up to the level of AYBE, ISBE, or even the ZEB - but a good resource nonetheless. It is superior to any of the one-volume dictionaries. So, be aware of that if you do choose to go for the upgrade.  The Baker might get you by for a while if you feel that the additonal commentaries will benefit you more. However, put the ISBE down as your next purchase to make.  The Baker is good enough that I tend to consult it along with the ISBE. If I have time for only one, then I got to ISBE, but Baker will have some good nuggets of information that make it worth my time to consult if I have time. Hope this helps!

Posts 172
CL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2011 8:49 AM

I upgraded to Platinum this morning! The download has started. I had Scholar's already so the download is only 1.22GB. Does that sound about right to everyone else?

CL 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2011 9:30 AM

CL Pearce:
I had Scholar's already so the download is only 1.22GB. Does that sound about right to everyone else?

According to this page, it's exactly right: http://www.logos.com/support/techfaq#size

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