EEC - why I hesitate

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 9:38 AM

Labeling commentaries (and resources in general) is a interesting question. If you do it, how detailed the labeling? I get the feeling Logos seeds codewords into the marketing copy that kind of hints where the resource sits. My own opinion ... the first place you go to check a commentary is the educational institutions of the contributors. That also sounds like labeling, but it seems to work. My Dad was a pastor and that was how we knew who thought what when I was growing up. Seems simplistic.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 461
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:02 AM

Joe:
Dispensationalism is not as critical is one's hermeneutic

Not to get too far into the weeds but dispensationalism is a hermeneutic. It has impacts on ecclesiology, eschatology and the like but its foundation is the hermeneutic that emphasizes a) a literal meaning of the text (in a historical-critical method) and b) OT passages find their primary meaning in the OT context and are not primarily defined by their NT reinterpretations.

A helpful resource: audio | text

Ross Durham:
I am disappointed that we users have had to ferret out all these issues and Logos has not been straightforward and upfront on the series' perspective.

I am 100% in agreement with you on this one. The sales copy for the ECC presents this series as a mainstream evangelical commentary without ever telling us that the hermeneutic employed by the majority of its writers contrasts sharply with the majority of evangelicals.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:08 AM

Ross Durham:

Good discussion.  However, I am disappointed that we users have had to ferret out all these issues and Logos has not been straightforward and upfront on the series' perspective.  There has been plenty of time to be transparent and clear.  When asking to prepay $700 (from my perspective a "hugh amount of money") I don't think such information and clarity is too much to ask.  And really should we have to ask?

Ross

That information is easily available by looking at the authors of the series. Clicking the link on the Logos product page will give a brief Bio for each, including their credentials. Now, what may not be obvious to some is that the large number of contributors from Dallas Theological Seminary (DTS) means that these folks are dispensational. On the other hand, this is widely known in academic circles.

in addition, there are several contributors that are not from DTS, and represent some other theological streams, suggesting that the series isn't trying to promote a single theological stream. It's possible that the large number of contributors from DTS simply reflects the high level of scholarship coming out of that institution, or the under-representation of those scholars in the commentary market, or some combination of the above. But in any case, it doesn't seem that this will be a dispensational commentary series. To my eye it looks like a commentary series that has a large representation by dispensationalists, but not exclusively so.

But this isn't anything unique. Rarely does a commentary series reveal (all) the theological perspective it presumes. If you were to go to a Bible book store and open up some books in a set of commentaries you may not see anything that would indicate the theological perspective of the authors. There is an assumption that those who are interested in such things will do their own research before plunking down their money.

Generally speaking, most students of Scripture are more interested in the level of scholarship, in the hermeneutic of the authors and the presentation of the material, than in their theological presuppositions. It's at that point where in a series like this one, where nothing is published yet, that some are not ready to commit. Others looking at the list of authors, and recognizing some names, seeing the goals of the set at the web site, etc, are ready to take whatever risk remains.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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JAIN THOMAS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:21 AM

Brother we are discussing about the quality of the scholarship. I mean the quality of the interpretation

Posts 82
Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:40 AM

David Moser:

Joe:
Dispensationalism is not as critical is one's hermeneutic

Not to get too far into the weeds but dispensationalism is a hermeneutic. It has impacts on ecclesiology, eschatology and the like but its foundation is the hermeneutic that emphasizes a) a literal meaning of the text (in a historical-critical method) and b) OT passages find their primary meaning in the OT context and are not primarily defined by their NT reinterpretations.

A helpful resource: audio | text

Thanks David for clarifying my quote.  I agree that it's foundation comes from a literal (normal) hermeneutic and meant to communicate that dispensationalism doesn't have direct import in all theological arenas.  Thanks for the helpful resource links.  I know Mike personally before he was Dr. Vlach!  Big Smile

Posts 461
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 2:40 PM

Joe, In that case, can you please pass along my sincere thanks to Mike for his clear and concise presentation in "You might be a dispensationalist if..." It's an enormously helpful starting point for the dispensational discussion.

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 4:09 PM

David Moser:

Joe, In that case, can you please pass along my sincere thanks to Mike for his clear and concise presentation in "You might be a dispensationalist if..." It's an enormously helpful starting point for the dispensational discussion.

Where is this resource located?

 

 

 

Posts 2867
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 6:04 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
That information is easily available by looking at the authors of the series.

Richard, in my opinion, and it is just my opinion, that does not help their case.   In fact, such statements have the opposite ipact for me.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 119
Ross Durham | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 5:14 AM

In fairness, WBC and Pillar don't speak about their perspective/hermeneutic in the simple paragraph summaries of the series either, but they also don't ask you to buy the whole series at one time without the ability to interact completely with their product.  When I bought WBC for Logos 14 years ago, it was an easy decision because I had already used the various volumes in seminary. 

I really radical idea would be for Logos to give away a section of the first volume or sell the whole first volume very cheap so people could see for themselves how much benefit it would be as a resource for their study, preaching and teaching--because that's the goal right?

I admit, this is a dumb idea.  Please don't flame me. :)

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 6:08 AM

Ross Durham:

really radical idea would be for Logos to give away a section of the first volume or sell the whole first volume very cheap so people could see for themselves how much benefit it would be as a resource for their study, preaching and teaching--because that's the goal right?

I admit, this is a dumb idea.  Please don't flame me. :)

Not a dumb idea at all Ross. They did something similar with the MacArthur Bible Study Series when they gave a free copy of the volume on Romans. I think it is an excellent idea for any commentary series, especially where we are expected to purchase the whole series.

Posts 461
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 8:03 AM

Michael Anda:
Where is this resource located?

Michael,
We were referring to  Dr. Vlach's presentation called "You Might Be a Dispensationalist If.." audio | text

A typical response to the basic dispensationalis argument can be found here. (Search for the paragraph starting with "Reformed amillennarians reject this understanding of God's redemptive purposes.")

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 8:51 AM

I had seriously considered the EEC, especially with the nice payment plans Logos has set up. It's still a good deal of money for something that will take an extended period of time to come to complete fruition, though locking in the price certainly makes it attractive. In the end, though, I decided to let it pass, partly because of the theological concerns in the OP.

Besides, there are just so many commentaries I have time to work through as I prepare my sermons each week. I'm at the place now that something has to be quite stellar or fills a lacking place in my library to entice me to buy.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 9:12 AM

Thank you, David.

 

 

 

Posts 1358
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 10:24 AM

Bill Moore:

I had seriously considered the EEC, especially with the nice payment plans Logos has set up. It's still a good deal of money for something that will take an extended period of time to come to complete fruition, though locking in the price certainly makes it attractive. In the end, though, I decided to let it pass, partly because of the theological concerns in the OP.

Besides, there are just so many commentaries I have time to work through as I prepare my sermons each week. I'm at the place now that something has to be quite stellar or fills a lacking place in my library to entice me to buy.

Yes Well stated.

Posts 273
Greg Corbin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 8:18 PM

Interesting discussion here. Personally, I am thrilled that we might finally have a scholarly, critical commentary written primarily from a dispensational perspective. I have WBC and several volumes NICOT as well as Baker Exegetical and found all of them to be extremely valuable to my study - albeit without sharing the dispensational perspective that I have. I was not interested in the EEC at all until this issue came up in the forums because I had not looked closely enough at the author list.  The Bible Knowledge Commentary is by far my favorite small volume commentary.

One other issue, I am still highly unlikely to spring for the $699 pre-pub.  I would have to do a payment plan anyway. It works much better for my budget to just buy the individual volumes as they are released. Yes, that will mean I will pay more for the entire set, but it makes it easier and doesn't obligate me.

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 8:21 PM

Greg Corbin:

One other issue, I am still highly unlikely to spring for the $699 pre-pub.  I would have to do a payment plan anyway. It works much better for my budget to just buy the individual volumes as they are released. Yes, that will mean I will pay more for the entire set, but it makes it easier and doesn't obligate me.

I believe it has been announced that they will NOT be available individually.

 

 

 

Posts 665
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 8:36 PM

I hesitate not because of the author line-up. It looks outstanding.

I hesitate because the price is steep and I'm asked to buy something sight unseen.

I'm sure it'll be a good value because it's a Logos product, but still, I can't justify a purchase without seeing it first. Paying a four number figure $ for the NICNT/OT set was tough enough!

Which means I can pay more later.

Posts 2867
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2011 7:07 AM

Michael Anda:

I believe it has been announced that they will NOT be available individually.

True, but that is always subject to change, as we have seen with other sets.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2011 7:55 AM

Michael Childs:

Michael Anda:

I believe it has been announced that they will NOT be available individually.

True, but that is always subject to change, as we have seen with other sets.

The change usually does not occur until a couple of years after publication.

Posts 2867
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2011 8:42 AM

Jack Caviness:

The change usually does not occur until a couple of years after publication.

That's a good point.  On the other hand, I already have to wait until 2016 before the volume that really interests me comes out.  Who knows what and when change will come with this set?  I am sure whatever is most profitable will be done. 

Aren't they going to release them in paper format, too?  It may be my best option to pick up the volumes that interest me that way.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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