Suggestions: Maps and Timelines

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Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011 3:05 PM

I really like Logos’ resources, however, they are still incomplete. I have searched for timelines for kings for specific empires outside of Israel, but there very few....or they are incomplete. They are also hard for me to find. I cannot just search for a timeline, from what I have seen. I have to go to the Library. I would like to suggest a quicker and easier way of getting to all Timelines....just through either Tools, or make some sort of Timeline Guide.

The Timelines for the Intertestamental Period are very incomplete. That needs to be fixed. The Persian Period starts with Darius I, not Cyrus the Great, who in fact shows up in Scripture, Isaiah and Ezra-Nehemiah. So all Persian Kings need to be in the Timeline, all Greek Kings need to be in the Timeline (not Just Alexander the Great), and Roman Emperors ought to be in the Timeline for the Intertestamental Period. I would also like to see more Governors for the Roman Period, specifically in the cities that are mentioned in Acts and the Pauline Epistles. I would also like to have Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian Pharaohs in a Timeline. I would also like the ability to compare any timeline with the other, such as have the Mesopotamian Archaeological Period, the Canaanite Archaeological Period, and the Egyptian Archaeological Period so I can do comparisons for the the different histories, and have the ability to map out when certain events occurred in Scripture, such as when Abraham lived, the two different dating suggestions for the Exodus and infiltration of Canaan of the Israelites, the Judges, the Kings of Israel, the Prophets, the Return from Exile, and compare all of those major events with the timelines of other kingdoms, nations, and other major historical events that happened outside of Israel, but what definitely affected Israel or the Patriarchs or the Kings or Judges of Israel. It would be helpful to have such timelines and the ability to put more than one timeline with another one so that good comparisons can be made. I know this is a huge suggestion, but it would be very helpful to any sort of in depth Bible study for Scholars, Teachers, Pastor, and Students of the Word of God. Many of those suggestions to add to Logos are because neither Logos NOR Accordance has those Timelines. So if added, it would mean I’d have something else that Accordance users would not have. I would also like to see a timeline for the Maccabean Period, when the Maccabees where winning battles and in control.

For Maps, I’d like to see completely mapped out the Persian Period, Greek Period, Roman Period, and I would like to see other Maps with other Empires throughout history so I can do comparisons for study and for teaching in class. I would also really like to see maps of the City of David as it was throughout the years and Jerusalem. It would be good so I could give size comparisons of Jerusalem during different time periods. A professor of mine has maps of the City of David and Jerusalem during David’s time and the different expansions, such as under Ezra-Nehemiah, Herod, the walls of the city as the Muslims  had built it, and how it looks today for a Projector. He can overlay the base one (which is the topography of the Jerusalem area) and then put how each of them looked over the topographical map. I would like something similar for Logos Maps. I would like the ability to have a topographical map with the City of David and Jerusalem during those same time periods to show the actual size of the city. This would be to give me and any one I teach a better perspective. That way it becomes harder and harder for me and them to impose our 21st century understanding of cities on ancient ideas of cities. I would also like to see more pictures of Citadels within a city and even some sort of 3D (not exactly of course, since that would be a HUGE project) of what some Citadels within specifically Israel looked like, especially what would have been found in a city taken over by the Greeks and the Romans. It would be good to give people perspectives on what each of the different major cities might have looked like during bible times. I would also like to see a map of the different battles that took place throughout Scripture, even those that are not found in Scripture, in Israel or around Israel. I would especially like Mapped out the Maccabean Kingdom, and a timeline of Maccabean leaders.

I would also like the ability to see the different sizes of the Temple throughout its history: the Temple when Solomon built it, the Temple when Nehemiah rebuilt it, and the Temple when Herod renovated/rebuilt it. It is not enough to just read the sizes in our English system (or Metric system if outside of USA), it is better to actually see it on a map with the actual sizes and dimensions of the Temple. I’d like to see more cities and towns on the maps that are actually found in the bible and Josephus/Philo, the Pauline Epistles, and the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha and the Apocrypha....and any other resource that can be added to Logos. I am one of those visual people who love actually being able to see things and put things into perspective. If possible, I’d like to see topographical maps of Israel (and any other major country mentioned in Scripture) would also be useful so I (and others, such as teachers, pastors, students, scholars) can put Scripture and the lands in Scripture into perspective. Many of us will not be able to actually travel there to see it for ourselves.

I would also like to suggest adding “Ancient Texts for the Study of the Hebrew Bible: A Guide to the Background Literature” by Kenton L. Sparks (found at http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Texts-Study-Hebrew-Bible/dp/0801047730/ref=pd_ybh_11?pf_rd_p=280800601&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_i=ybh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YYE935PHEWMW6C3P5PC), and “Ancient Texts for New Testament Studies: A Guide to the Background Literature” by Craig A. Evens. (found at http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Texts-New-Testament-Studies/dp/0801046173/ref=pd_ybh_10?pf_rd_p=280800601&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_i=ybh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YYE935PHEWMW6C3P5PC). (My Bible School’s Reference Library has a copy of each.)

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Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 12:14 PM

Great suggestion(s) Caleb.  While this would indeed be a big undertaking, it would be very helpful in study IMHO.

Posts 579
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 6:11 PM

I am sorry, but I am not sure what IMHO stands for.

I do think it would be cool to create my own map within Logos. I could name all the cities that I want on the map, and it Logos would render it with just those cities. I know that would take a lot of resources and time to create, but if I have a list of cities I want to mention in a classroom setting or while studying a specific portion of Scripture, I could just click "Add City" or something and it would put it where it is. To have the ability to look at the area topographically would be helpful, since there very well could be mentions of certain cities or areas to make a point based on its location, as well as the religious practices of the areas. If I had a doctorate in not only ancient languages and Judaism and the Historical/Cultural perspective on the Ancient world, I'd LOVE to help Logos build things....even though I do not know much about creating programs and software.

I also have a Lexicon suggestion to add to Logos: "Concise Dictionary of Classical Hebrew" by David J. A. Clines (found here and amazon.com: http://www.dovebook.com/bookdesc.asp?bookid=56165)

"Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Volume 1: Aleph" by David J. A. Clines (http://www.dovebook.com/bookdesc.asp?bookid=13244)

"Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Volume 2: Beth-Waw" by David J. A. Clines (http://www.dovebook.com/bookdesc.asp?bookid=15820)

"Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Volume 3: Zatin-Tet" by David J. A. Clines (http://www.dovebook.com/bookdesc.asp?bookid=15821)

"Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Volume 4: Yodh-Lamedh" by David J. A. Clines (http://www.dovebook.com/bookdesc.asp?bookid=15822)

"Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Volume 5: Mem-Nun" by David J. A. Clines (http://www.dovebook.com/bookdesc.asp?bookid=15824)

"Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Volume 6: Samekh-Pe" by David J. A. Clines (http://www.dovebook.com/bookdesc.asp?bookid=15823)

"Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, Volume 7: Sade-Resh" by David J. A. Clines (http://www.dovebook.com/bookdesc.asp?bookid=15825) (which was just released this year).

Here is the description on Volumes 1-6 on dovebook.com

"The Dictionary of Classical Hebrew is a completely new and innovative dictionary.

Unlike previous dictionaries, which have been dictionaries of biblical Hebrew, this is the first dictionary of the classical Hebrew language to include the Bible, Dead Sea Scrolls, and all the other known Hebrew inscriptions and manuscripts.

This Dictionary covers the period from the earliest times to 200 C.E.. It lists and analyses every occurrences of each Hebrew word that occurs in texts of that period, with an English translation of every Hebrew word and phrase cited.

Among its special features are: a list of the non-biblical texts cited (especially the Dead Sea Scrolls), a word frequency index for each letter of the alphabet, a substantial bibliography (from Volume 2 onward) and an English-Hebrew index in each volume."

Here is the description on Volume 7

"Scholars are gradually realizing that they cannot now do without this innovative dictionary, a benchmark for the study of Hebrew in the twenty-first century.

It is the first dictionary of the classical Hebrew language to cover not only the biblical texts but also Ben Sira, the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Hebrew inscriptions. It is the first dictionary to analyse the exact sense of every occurrence of every word, to follow every Hebrew word or phrase with an English equivalent, to print a frequency table of occurrences of each word, and to provide an English-Hebrew index.

Not least among its features is an extraordinarily rich bibliography surveying special lexicographical studies over the last century, and adding more than 50% attested and proposed words to the stock of the Hebrew lexicon.

Volume 7 has now been published (November 2010). Volume 8 is already in draft, and is awaiting only the preparation of the Bibliography and the final editing."

I also am hoping that Logos is planning on updating the Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament with the following books: "Matthew", "Mark", "Acts", "Ephesians", "James", "Jude and 2 Peter", and "1-3 John." The other books of the Bible are still forthcoming. I could not find an estimated date for them. Here is a link where those other books that came out over the last 4 years can be found: Baker Academic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 11:17 PM

 

Caleb S.:
I am sorry, but I am not sure what IMHO stands for.

IMHO normally stands for "In My Humble/Honest Opinion"

Graham

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2011 6:40 PM

Peace to you, Caleb!

              *smile*

                         Some truly excellent suggestions!

                               Well-written!            I'm sure Logos' ears will "perk up"!   At least mine did!

Thank you!

(To perk up one's ears is to begin to listen attentively; -- usually used when something of interest is mentioned in some discourse, after one's attention had lapsed; as, he perked up his ears when he heard his name mentioned. [PJC]

Source: The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1183
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 21 2013 10:59 AM

In case you haven't seen it yet! I realise your post was a while ago so probs you have...

http://www.logos.com/product/29300/the-dictionary-of-classical-hebrew

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2013 2:41 AM

Caleb: "I do think it would be cool to create my own map within Logos."

Well, Google Earth has some map editing capability., and also many graphic and database programs

ESRI is excellent, but Logos should make a deal with them.

GMI has some map data, mostly missions related http://www.gmi.org/,they have a deal with ESRI

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2013 7:10 AM

All good suggestions, Caleb.

I really don't understand Logos, but then I never have.  They're very 'database' oriented, text-minded, and then what I call 'cutsie'.

If one were to embark on their new timeline concept, obviously there'd be a categorization of 'Biblical' (lookup-able) vs scholarly. Then of course 'time'. But apparently at that point it was time for coffee-break. Never crossed their mind about 'groups' (as they already had in Logos4). Or 'alternatives' (as the Logos resources constantly discuss).  And of  course the interface is extremely slow; can't arrow it.

The entry for a time period is a perfect example of Logos thinking. If it's bce you put that AFTER the date; if it's ce, then that's BEFORE the date. Or maybe just the opposite. Who knows? 'Normal' coders would class the user entry, and then parse the results for the convenience of users.

Their mapping design is very similar. A database for location references, and then a random dump of images with mouseovers to search them.  I literally copied out their images into my own Bible software (being careful not to 'share') and then re-labeled them by time period. MUCH faster.  Plus I use Bible Mapper a lot since it shows early roads, along with associated geology (water availability, etc).

I'm looking forward to the Accordance Windows version but it's not like I need a lot more 'books'. Mainly mapping and imagery where Logos is so weak.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 579
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:52 AM

Oh yes! I have it pre-ordered. So, instead of getting each book for $250 a piece, we get to buy all 8 volumes for $250!! I am excited about that! AND it is in production right now!!!

Posts 579
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 4:15 PM

Here are places where one can vote to have Logos do a COMPLETE overhaul of the Maps:

https://prepub.uservoice.com/forums/183407-general/suggestions/3791726-interactive-atlas

https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-5/suggestions/717262--reimagine-maps-have-non-static-maps

If you have NOT voted and you are frustrated with Logos' antiquated, obsolete, useless Map system, please vote at one or both of them.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 20 2014 11:27 AM

I was curious to see if a solitary forum member would comment with your yesterday's post.  Maybe they were waiting for me to comment. It's possible.

I can't imagine Logos needing user votes to improve its maps, images or hymns offerings.  They're all filler from Logos4 in 2009.  Especially the old early 1900s books with pictures of the Holy Land. Ironically, cameras that made those images sport a hefty price on antique sites.

 Contrast A-Company's modern high-definition images well organized.  Carta map resources.  Need I mention Jerusalem yet again? Modern Jerusalem resources, I might add.

Let's consider the amateur lady's own software:
- She has far more maps than Logos
- Her maps are labeled and tagged for ease of sorting and searching.  Select a point in time ... it's just so magical!
- She allows her user (just one of course) to draw on the maps (most recently Grant's stupidity in 'the Wilderness'), copy sections, re-image, and yes, save all changes as objects overlaying the original.
- She also encourages her user to import more maps, images and whatnot.

Now to be fair, the amateur lady doesn't support time-based interactive mapping.  Well, gee. Her user might not be willing to pay for it.

Now then, let's talk hymns.  Ok.  Maybe we better not.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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