PLEASE VOTE: Comprehensive reworking of NOTES in one or more phases i.e. if you are unhappy with notes, please read

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 17 2011 3:53 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Likewise wonder how much can be accomplished with Logos 4 PBB's, wonder about potential for inductive Bible study handouts, tables, illustrations, etc

We really don't know much about the PBB. I think that Bob expects PBBs to solve some of the note problems. Knowing some personal communications with Bob (other than my own) I see why he believes it. I simply disagree - primarily because notes are so far from ideal that Logos can't easily see how people want to use them. As I see the navigational problems with Notes, I would expect PBB's to make the problem worse rather than being a solution. But I'm not privy to their data model - if they have finally recognized that user text is simply specialized into notes, sermons, PBB's and simply coded for inheritance rules I may be leaping so high for joy that  I hit my head on the ceiling. Ouch.Crying

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 17 2011 4:13 PM

MJ. Smith:
In my mind a note is a single object - whether attached to a note file, guide or clipping. And a clipping is simply a specialized note. This is so fundamental to my thinking (a user's view of the data) that I keep being surprised that it is not Logos' view.

Yes

MJ. Smith:
Because we do not have the PBB or the Sermon files, some of us have used notes to fill the gap. That makes the use statistics look like a PBB is an appropriate alternative.

Another thing that is bound to wreck their statistics is the simple fact that the more notes someone has, the more likely he probably is to have Send Feedback set to None. It's the people with lots of notes that tend to show most concern about security and integrity, so turning that off would seem like a natural first step. Consequently, Logos probably underestimates our use of notes considerably, and also gets a false image of how we use them.

Plus, like you and others have said, lots of people want to use notes, but can't, because they're not nearly good enough.

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 17 2011 6:48 PM

fgh:
Another thing that is bound to wreck their statistics is the simple fact that the more notes someone has, the more likely he probably is to have Send Feedback set to None. It's the people with lots of notes that tend to show most concern about security and integrity, so turning that off would seem like a natural first step. Consequently, Logos probably underestimates our use of notes considerably, and also gets a false image of how we use them.
Yes

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 19 2011 4:23 PM

Rework notes function - in one or multiple phases is now tied for # 4, needs 60 more user votes to become # 3.

Keep Smiling Smile

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2011 2:06 PM

Now at 500 votes exactly. 4th place.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2011 7:09 PM

fgh:

Now at 500 votes exactly. 4th place.

Getting 500 votes in just over a month isn't quite on the same level as Y'shuua walking on water, but it's astonishing nonetheless...especiallly considering that many folks blew their 10 votes when User Voice came online. In its own way it kinda reminds me of the Boston Tea Party. If Logos doesn't hear this hubbub, they should consult an audiologist.

500 votes <---The User Voice vote heard 'round the world.

 

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 29 2011 5:22 AM

David Paul:
If Logos doesn't hear this hubbub, they should consult an audiologist.
Logos as a company and the several people I've come to know within the company are very on top of things.  I can confidently tell you based upon this repeatedly seen character trait that they've heard.

Keep in mind there is a finite set of resources (think programmer hours) to spend on any given project - but reading through multiple threads here gives me a feeling that they hear.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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L.D. Young | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 29 2011 6:05 AM

Just added my 3 votes. Smile

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Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 29 2011 6:14 AM

 

L.D. Young:

Just added my 3 votes. Smile

Plus 3 more!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 2 2011 9:46 PM

Rework notes function - in one or multiple phases now # 3 (with 539 votes & 204 supporters), needs 152 more user votes to become # 2.

Keep Smiling Smile

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777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 6:07 AM

I found some new Bible Notes software that looks interesting.

http://scrolltag.com/home

It looks to be brand spanking new and runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux.  It might be a good complement to Logos notes.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 19 2011 10:37 AM

David Paul:

fgh:

Now at 500 votes exactly. 4th place.

Getting 500 votes in just over a month isn't quite on the same level as Y'shuua walking on water, but it's astonishing nonetheless...especiallly considering that many folks blew their 10 votes when User Voice came online. In its own way it kinda reminds me of the Boston Tea Party. If Logos doesn't hear this hubbub, they should consult an audiologist.

500 votes <---The User Voice vote heard 'round the world.

Just 3 weeks later and this has added 100 votes and is 3rd on the list. Still a very astonishing push. YOU can be the one to put it over 600...and help bump this up to #2. I would love to see this take the #1 position. Then--maybe--Logos would give this the well-deserved and dearly-needed attention it deserves.

Let's keep this one active! Yes

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OnDroad | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 20 2011 5:15 PM

It is part of the program and should have at LEAST the options of the PC version so that when the note icon is clicked on in the bible passage it goes to that particular referenced note versus only opening the note file and having to manually navigate to the note within the file each time.  It should be sortable by reference just like the PC version.  Now since an update with the past few months, the note option is even worse.  The file opens up and sometimes the field is blank until I move the notes up or down, then sometimes the words are jumbled together. Now also if I open my PC Logos4 in the sync mode it duplicates notes and has mixed up the locations of the notes (ie Romans notes intermixed with Acts notes instead of in sequence) so it is even more difficult to locate the note now.  PLEASE, forget the voting and lets JUST FIX the PROGRAM.  Let the VOTING be for the bells and whistles if people want such, I just want the program fixed to work at the LEAST like it did under Libronix for PC.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 20 2011 6:08 PM

OnDroad:
PLEASE, forget the voting and lets JUST FIX the PROGRAM.  Let the VOTING be for the bells and whistles if people want such
That particular UserVoice item does not request bells and whistles, but basic functionality that should have been present from the beginning.

The Notes implementation in L4 Win is not good. It only looks that way in comparison with those in the Mac version. Bob P mentioned something about a new Notes format. Perhaps, any work on Notes in the Mac version would be seen as wasted effort if the basic format is changing.

I have given up on Notes in L4 Mac and now take notes in MacJournal.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 20 2011 6:24 PM

OnDroad:
PLEASE, forget the voting and lets JUST FIX the PROGRAM.  Let the VOTING be for the bells and whistles if people want such, I just want the program fixed to work at the LEAST like it did under Libronix for PC.

I agree with you that Notes are broken not just feature deprived. However, Logos was not fixing the problems with the level of priority that many thought was needed. I pushed to the point Bob P. was probably getting annoyed with me. Ask him about Luke 18:1-8 Big Smile Part of the problem was that Logos saw a wide variety of small requests that seemed to be (a) attempted to use Notes in a manner they did not expect  and (b) small issues that were of (relative) low priority. The comprehensive request was pulled together to bring the full issue to Logos' attention - and show them the support for the changes. It was worded "one or more phases" to encourage the "repair" work to be done even if priorities delayed the "enhancement" work - and to recognize that the MAC version isn't equal to the PC version.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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OnDroad | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 20 2011 6:42 PM

SmileSo when is the release date for the notes portion of the program to be at least up to speed with the old PC Libronix?

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OnDroad | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 20 2011 6:50 PM

Jack, I agree.  L4Win notes wasn't up to speed with Libronix notes for PC, of which did not have bells and whistles either but worked better than L4 Win or MAC.  It digressed in L4.  I'm just saying at least get it back to the PC Libronix abilities...then work on bells and whistles.  What does it take to get the program notes to work at least as well as under PC Libronix?  Let 'em improve from there if they want but losing capability is not working toward customer satisfaction.

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 4:24 AM

MJ. Smith:
Part of the problem was that Logos saw a wide variety of small requests that seemed to be (a) attempted to use Notes in a manner they did not expect  and (b) small issues that were of (relative) low priority.

Hi MJ.

I personally think the good folks at Logos where in a state of denial when it came to their design and implementation of notes for L4, and where using the above items as an excuse not to put much work into notes.  

Before L4 was released, Bob said that they had listen to its users and were improving notes in L4.  I believe that Bob believed that his this statement was true, and that they were/did improve notes in L4.

I believe that they had a hard time coming to grasp (being in a state of denial) that the reason why that there was a wide variety of requests for notes came from the fact that their implementation was a complete failure in the hands of people who use notes.

If you ask me, notes is a perfect example of Logos' code first and design second mentality.  Now, they need to go back and basically completely rewrite their note subsystem, and this is going to cost Logos $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$!!!!!!  

For an example of this lack of design in Notes is the available colors for our note icons.  There are three (if I remember correctly) colors that we had in L3 that are not available in L4.  Because these colors are not available in L4, they used yellow as their default color.  Now close to half of my notes are yellow, and my yellow notes in L4 have lost their meaning.

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 12:19 PM

tom collinge:
If you ask me, notes is a perfect example of Logos' code first and design second mentality.

I agree this is one of several cases where they coded before they understood the requirements. And yes, redesigning after they fact is more costly than doing it right in the first place. I know a number of funny industry stories where the person who made a complex team project out of a task was rewarded over the person who did a similar task quickly, with low-resources and alone simply because they thought first, coded second.

I am also suspicious that Logos doesn't understand the degree to which an experienced analyst can look at their product and identify the "hidden" design flaws.

In their defense, however, the delay in PBBs and sermons forced the users to improve with notes and not get the big picture of notes, sermons, PBB's as Logos expected them to be used.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 6:43 PM

MJ. Smith:
I am also suspicious that Logos doesn't understand the degree to which an experienced analyst can look at their product and identify the "hidden" design flaws.
Preach it sister!

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