Sharing my library

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 31 2011 10:10 AM

Just wanting to be devil's advocate here a moment. First of all the closest thing I do to committing software/copy right violation is backing up all my DVDs to a hard drive and sharing my itunes music with my spouse. But that said there are many people who have little respect for the modern concept of copy right, indeed were it around in the time of Jesus I dare say we would likely have one Synoptic gospel and who knows if it would have even survived. While we are in very different times, I understand those who believe the "Word of God is not chained", and many believe they are being "wise as serpents". Indeed there are many who think that because they have not received a physical item or at least haven't given a physical item no real harm is done. People should be allowed to make money off of their hard work. When we violate copy right we are depriving people of a living. We may very much disagree with the percentage that goes to Logos and the publisher verses the Author but it is how the system works. And while I know we are under no compulsion morally to follow the law when it contradicts what God wants of us. The example of the group of clergy sharing one Logos account appears to me to be somewhat immoral. If they ensured they were never reading the same book at the same time, I feel they have followed the spirit of the law but I doubt they have. I will not label this sin or theft in a traditional sense, only illegal. Boasting about it seems  most out of place. Sometimes the only thing we can really do is pray for people and try to set a good example.

-Dan

Posts 4
Steve Wipperman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 31 2011 10:55 AM

For many reasons I regret that I started this thread. The judgmental, fault-finding, self-righteousness of the past many comments crushes my spirit. If that were all to come of this discussion, I would be ashamed and embarrassed personally.

Thankfully, something good appears to be surfacing - a way to legally and copyright respectfully share e-books. As previously mentioned Amazon is making something of the kin available to Kindle owners. So is Barnes and Noble with Nook. I hope and pray Logos can find a way to follow suit in some manner. That result would almost make all the grief I feel worth it in a "end justifies the means" kind of rationale. 

I am one of perhaps many who purchased Logos and electronic books through Logos which I also owned in hard copy form. I spent so much money on my professional library that Satan even used it to elicit carnal pride within me. I did own paper copies of the entire set of Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, the set of International Critical Commentaries, the set of Pulpit Commentary, the set of Martin Luther's Works, the set of Barclay's NT Commentary, and thousands more. I am not boasting. Much of that library I now own in Logos format and many of the paper copies I have given away to seminary students. I prefer the search capabilities, cut and paste options, etc. that Logos provides and have justified the expense on that basis in my own mind.

Nevertheless, it continues to bother me that I cannot share an e-book like I can a paper book. Nor can I give it away. Currently, my only option is to purchase the same book a third time. Somehow, that just doesn't seem right to me. While I understand and uphold the current laws, I long for a better way.

As for the matter of several persons at one location using the same software, I think many other publishers have solved that already with group licensing. Our church uses Quickbooks. In order for our treasurer to use it, she has one license. For our Finance Committee to review her work and control the budget, we had to purchase an "additional user license" which was almost the cost of the original software. I'm not a software engineer, but it seems to me that something similar might be an excellent option for Logos to pursue. 

God's blessings to all who consider this note. I pray these thoughts can be a blessing for us all.

 

Steve

Posts 386
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2011 2:40 AM

Giovanni Baggio:

Can we report those who abuse the license? I sure don't mind telling logos of a so called "friend" who has the software installed in his computer and let his sons (3 of them who work on 3 different churches) use the software.  The worst part is the so called "ministers" boast of having paid so much money to upgrade so each can have it on their iPhone and stuff.

I would not hesitate for a moment reporting them if Logos gave me the OK.  The worst part is that they told me and my brother that we were dumb paying twice for the software.  I told him not dumb because I decided to upgrade to Platinum and add other Spanish libraries while my brother decided to stay with his scholars package.

It really ticks me off to see them preach using "sophisticated words" that they get out of the software when they're not good role models by doing what they are doing.  Their churches may not know about it, but I DO.  So please Logos, let me report them, I can give you their names right now!

Sorry, but I hate to see people thinking they're too smart to avoid getting caught when they should know better that God is watching!

GB

Giovanni Baggio:

Giovanni Baggio Replied: Yesterday 8:00 PM

MJD you must not have read the post where I apologized to people at the beginning of this year.  But anyway, I'm not going to follow your lead and argue non sense with  you.  By the way, I've never threaten anybody in this forum and if I were to do it I'd be more direct than you.  Read you're statement "I am so glad that I have become a christian..." that carries a lot of implications, if not why separate them with" ..."? But like I said, this thread is closed to me, I'll participate in others.  I forgive you

Giovanni - Here is your threatening post.  I am confused at why you continue to post.  Brother, please reconsider your motives.

Confronting Sin in Your Christian Brother

 

 

"Proverbs 27:17  Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

We are commanded to hold each other accountable and make each other stronger. God has given us a brilliant plan for this that keeps all close by his side.

Because we are fallen and sinful, we will have conflicts. God has given us a model for working out those conflicts, whether they are big or small. We are to confront sin and but work toward overlooking personal offenses.

Proverbs 19:11

A man’s discretion makes him slow to anger.
And it is his glory to overlook a transgression.

First make sure your friend has actually “sinned” and not just done something that you didn’t like. What scripture have they violated?.

James 5:16

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Matthew 18 is the instruction manual on how to confront sin. It should be studied and parsed and restudied. (For more on this read The Peacemakers by Ken Sande)

Matthew 18:15-22

If your brother sins go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed.

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as Gentile and a tax collector.

Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.

For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.”

We tend to confront things in people that we do not like, but to shy away from confronting on sin using scripture. Ironically, both of these can be sin in themselves.

Confrontation is to be for restoration into the body.

2 Timothy 2:24-25

The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged.

With gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

It is important to note that God is the one who grants repentance. We don’t correct only if we think that the person being corrected will respond well. God tells us just to do it and leave the results up to Him.

2 Timothy 4:2

Preach the world; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

Galatians 6:1

Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

Temptation comes in many forms, but the biggest temptation when being in the position of confronting someone on sin is to be come arrogant. Tim Keller believes that in order to confront someone on sin correctly, you have to be as grieved over the sin being confronted as the one in sin should be. That you should bear the burden of their sin with them.

*(There is an exception to this ‘gentleness’ principle for religious leaders who will not repent and be accountable for their sin. Christ, Paul, John the Baptist and countless prophets both taught and practiced rebuking such “hidden reefs, false teachers, scribes, hypocrites, and Pharisees” both harshly and publicly, sometimes calling them out by name and even calling them insulting names. See Jeremiah 5, 8 and 23, Ezekiel 23, Matthew 3, Matthew 12:34, Matthew 23, 2 Peter 2, and 1 Tim. 5:20. This harshness may not have been to turn the hypocrite from his sin [as he would likely have done so during private confrontation or upon his own reading and teaching of scripture if he was a true believer with a repentant heart], as much as it was for the protection and teaching of the rest of God’s people who were being lead by, and being victims of, unrepentant, unconfessed sinners who propagated false teaching. This harsh, public rebuke is only for those who have been entrusted with God’s authority, and use it for their own purposes at the expense of the flock).

James 5:19-20

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Matthew 7:3-5

Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

Note that the passage does not tell us not to take the log out of our brother’s eye, but to first deal with our own sin. This process restores both the confronter and the confronted to Christ, pulling all back into unity in Him.

This verse is also important to keep in mind as you examine your motives if you decide not to confront someone on their sin. Are you choosing not to confront them because you do not want to deal with your own sin? Do you love your log?

Ephesians 4:1-7, 11-16

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,

With all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,

Being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace

There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift….

…He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

For the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

As a result, we are not longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

From whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

Unity as believers is a natural by product of unity with Christ. It does not require anyone to be forced or coerced. If we have the same love, the same obedience and the same purpose in life, we will be headed toward the same goal and offering one another grace when we can’t agree on one means of getting there as opposed to another...

 

Philippians 2:1-11

Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion,

make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;

do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

But emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

So that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

And that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus was God. Although He and He alone had the right to judge and condemn us, He chose to walk among us and even put Himself beneath us, so that we might have a chance at redemption. We, being sinful, certainly have the duty to place ourselves beneath our others so that they might have a chance at redemption. Confrontation of sin in their lives is to be done in such a position of service.

Colossians 3:12-17

So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;

Bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.

Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.

Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in y our hearts to God.

Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

When we became repentant of our sins, God forgave us fully and threw our sins ‘as far as the east is from the west’. When others repent of their sins, and ‘bear fruit in keeping with repentance’, we are to do the same and wipe the slate clean for them.

(A common misconception that arises from this verse and that can result in spiritual abuse in the church, is the idea that we as Christians must forgive all sins against us. Not so. We are required to forgive the repentant as Christ forgives us when we are repentant, and may forgive the unrepentant if we so choose, but forgiveness of unrepentant sin is not required of us, as it is not required of Jesus [who does not forgive all sin]. If one chooses not to forgive, and hold someone’s sin against them as they walk through church discipline with them, one must take GREAT care not to become bitter, proud or to hypocritical themselves.)

As you can see, before we confront a sister on her sin, we have a LOT of work to do on ourselves.

Confrontation is not to be done as a reaction to being injured out of selfish anger, but as a proactive act of service to the one being confronted. We are not to elevate ourselves above others, bur follow Christ’s example and consider one another more important than ourselves.

 

Remember, you are just one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread.

If when confronted your sister repents:

2 Corinthians 2:7-8

So that on the contrary, you should rather forgive and comfort him, otherwise such a one might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.

Wherefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him.

Matthew 18:23-35 tells us the story of a man who begged for mercy and was offered it, but would not offer mercy to a repentant man who begged him for it. The end of the story was not pleasant for him. Search your heart. When your sister (or your husband for that matter) has shown repentance, do you still hold a grudge?

If when confronted your sister does not repent after going through the Matthew 18 process:

Titus 3:10-11

Reject a fractious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Even this is for restoration, so that the person can not be in denial about their broken relationship with God and can be convicted into repentance.

James 5:16

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Even if fellowship with a believer is broken, we are to continue loving them and encouraging them to come back to Christ, as we would any unbeliever. Time can be spent with them if it is talking about their potential repentance and restoration to Christ, but that should be the extend of the relationship.

Be wise in recognizing who is your “brother” in Christ and who is not:

Matthew 7:15-23

Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree product good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Many will say to Me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?”

And I will declare to them, “I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.”

If Jesus said that there would be those who even cast out demons and performed miracles in His name, and yet were not his followers, we need to be careful not to assume just because someone attends church, or even pastors a church, that they know Christ. We are called to look closely at a person’s works to find evidence of their union with Christ.

It is important to note that in a healthy Christian community where the Matthew 18 process is being practiced, such ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’ are usually prevented from ever getting a foothold in the flock in the first place. When obedience and confession of sin is the norm, one who is unrepentant stands out like a sore thumb.

Scripture tells us that confronting such sheep in wolves clothing will result not in their repentance and restoration into the body but in retribution against the one who confronted them.

Proverbs 9:7-9

He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself;
And he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself.

Do not reprove a scoffer lest he hate you;
Reprove a wise man, and he will love you.

Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser,
Teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning.

Matthew 7:6

Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

1 John 2:3-6

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him”;

But whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected by this we know that we are in Him:

The one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

1 John 5:2-3

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

When trying to decide if someone is a true disciple of Christ, there are two areas to look at to see what their true character is:

1. What they do in a conflict when they have something to loose.

2. What they do when they think no one is watching

Have you ever corrected someone, only to be attacked for it? Were there any signs in their life in the first place that may have told you that they were not actually a teachable disciple of Jesus Christ?

Have you responded badly to someone’s correction of something that you did wrong? Are you a true and teachable disciple of Jesus Christ?" 


May 14, 2008 -Ginger Taylor (http://dailydiscernment.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/confronting-sin-in-your-christian-brother/)

 

 

Posts 9
nek koddd | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 1 2011 5:49 PM

Great post MJD, this is some good insight....

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