Bible reference searches in non-Bible resources

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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011 12:19 PM

I am trying to find a way to reliably find all instances of a particular Bible reference in resources with links to Bible verses. Nothing I have tried reliably finds all instances of a reference, even though the references are marked as Bible links.

For example, I have tried a search for <Bible = 1 John 2:28> in Daniel Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics. It only returns once match (p. 465), which is in a footnote. But the search misses two instances on p 525, which are a range of passages in the form 2:28-3:10 and 2:28-3:3.

I would like to see the Bible search feature work properly with a range of passages, so I could find a specific verse within the range.  If I search for <Bible = 1 John 2:28> it should find a reference to 1 John 2:20-29.

Unfortunately, this particular book is missing the Scripture index found in the print edition, so I find myself going to the print edition to find Scripture passages.

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 12:38 PM

What happens if you just try searching for 1 John 2:28 without anything else.

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 12:44 PM

Harry, the syntax is important

<Bible = 1 John 2:28> will only return a hit of 1 John 2:28. You can shorten it to <=1 John 2:28>

<Bible ~ 1 John 2:28> will return the range 1 John 2:20-29. You can shorten it to <1 John 2:28>

 

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:08 PM

Actually Kevin, try it, Harry is right. I even tried <Bible ~ 1 John 2:28> and it still returns only 1 result and misses the two on pg. 525.

Something else is going on, Hmm....

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:11 PM

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:14 PM

Dominick Sela:

Actually Kevin, try it, Harry is right. I even tried <Bible ~ 1 John 2:28> and it still returns only 1 result and misses the two on pg. 525.

Something else is going on, Hmm....

I don't have the resource so I can't check.  Is it possible that the two errant citations are not correctly linked to 1 John but rather to John or some other location?

I have run into that in other places as an issue.

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:16 PM

Dominick Sela:

Actually Kevin, try it, Harry is right. I even tried <Bible ~ 1 John 2:28> and it still returns only 1 result and misses the two on pg. 525.

Something else is going on, Hmm....

Huh, my comment on syntax stands though. There must be some bug in this resource. I wonder if it has something to do with the way that Galaxie tagged it.

 

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:18 PM

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:20 PM

You may have it there Kevin, I was trying to think of a way to track thsi down. Should we make a new thread citing BUG or ....?

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:24 PM

Kevin, (or others)  What happens when you click that link?  Does it jump to a location in Wallaces grammar or to the Bible?  If it jumps in the grammar than I'd wager that's the cause of the problem. 

I agree that the "stacking" of the reference appears oddly done to me, and I can't remember seeing it done that way - though the "Bible" link just below that should be correct.

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:26 PM

Thomas Black:
Does it jump to a location in Wallaces grammar or to the Bible?  If it jumps in the grammar than I'd wager that's the cause of the problem. 

The Wallace link jumps to the top of the section of the grammar this link is found in.

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:31 PM

I may misunderstand the question, but when I click on "2:28-3:3 in Wallace it goes to my default Bible. And hovering shows the Bible text. Is that what you mean?

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:33 PM

I just found another range that this problem doesn't show up in. (Acts 4:29-30 on page 598; a search for <Bible ~ Acts 4:29> finds it, the "link stacking" is still there but I noticed that it shows up not matter where you click, even on an untagged word, it's like a headword). There must be something wrong behind the scenes that we can't figure out through the interface.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:34 PM

Kevin Becker:

Thomas Black:
Does it jump to a location in Wallaces grammar or to the Bible?  If it jumps in the grammar than I'd wager that's the cause of the problem. 

The Wallace link jumps to the top of the section of the grammar this link is found in.

I suspect that explains the problem.  It's not a Bible link, even if it looks like one.

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:35 PM

Dominick Sela:

I may misunderstand the question, but when I click on "2:28-3:3 in Wallace it goes to my default Bible. And hovering shows the Bible text. Is that what you mean?

No, we were talking about the GGBTB link/reference

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:37 PM

Dominick Sela:

I may misunderstand the question, but when I click on "2:28-3:3 in Wallace it goes to my default Bible. And hovering shows the Bible text. Is that what you mean?

Yes I meant what happens when you click on the link.  I think this is a bug in the resource.

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LogosEmployee
Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:56 PM

The "Reference" is just the active reference for this section, not something specific to your selection, which appears to be tagged and functioning correctly as a Bible reference.

From comparing this to surrounding references, I think the actual reason these aren't being caught is that "~" excludes references that span chapters. I'm assuming this is by design to avoid picking up broad references like "1 Jn 2-5" (similar to "in" or %narrow-intersect% in Libronix).

<bible superset 1 Jn 2:28> appears to get all references you're looking for.

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 2:09 PM

Thanks Louis! I wondered about the Bible span but didn't know about superset. I'll check it out!

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 2:10 PM

Thanks Louis, is there a character that is short for superset?

More importantly would it be possible to get a developer to look at this. In some cases where a chapter break is poorly placed this is a serious search limitation! Perhaps if the ~ could include adjacent chapters where the Bible reference had a specific end verse.

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LogosEmployee
Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 3:10 PM

I'll ask whether this is actually what was intended. As I noted, the function appears to be the same as %narrow-intersect% in Libronix. If the reason for this is really just to exlude overly broad chapter-level ranges, then it seems like references that specify a verse and only span a single chapter are precise enough to be included by "~".

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