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Posts 103
Lonnie Ritchie | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:54 PM

Anybody think Logos will accept the proposal of payments based upon the release of each volume in the EEC?

Lonnie

Posts 2693
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 1:57 PM

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/31061.aspx

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 386
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 7:42 PM

I think Logos should forgo all of the "service fees" to all payment plans for multiple years not just the 12 month plan.

There should be NO NEED for a $5 fee for payments when the works are not complete.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 7:55 PM

MJD:
There should be NO NEED for a $5 fee for payments when the works are not complete.

That will probably happen immediately after someone convinces the Logos employees who must administer those programs to forgo their paychecks. Big Smile

Posts 386
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 8:01 PM

Jack Caviness:

MJD:
There should be NO NEED for a $5 fee for payments when the works are not complete.

That will probably happen immediately after someone convinces the Logos employees who must administer those programs to forgo their paychecks. Big Smile

I am convinced the MVP star stands for "Most Verbal Proponent", always defending for the MAN....Hmm

Posts 846
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 8:16 PM

Lonnie Ritchie:

Anybody think Logos will accept the proposal of payments based upon the release of each volume in the EEC?

Lonnie

No.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 24 2011 9:03 PM

I wish Logos great success with the EEC.

However, after much prayerful consideration, the EEC is one that I will live without.  I am too troubled by the narrow dispensational view of most of the authors.  It is not that any of the authors are unqualified - far from it.  I would welcome a commentary by any of the authors.  It is just the almost total domination of the set by one dispensational seminary is too much for me.  I would feel the same if the set was dominated by another perspective or seminary.  For example, if most of the authors were from Reform Theological Seminary, a great Calvinist school, I probably would not buy it.  To spend this much on such a one-sided perspective set, it would have to be from my perspective.  If I were dispensational, I would buy it.  I grew up dispensational, but it is no longer my perspective.

When I add that concern to the idea of paying years in advance for books that have not been written, I cannot justify it.  Besides, I am too old to buy that far ahead.  There are too many great resources that I need to buy and use now.

The dispensational market is very big, and I predict this set will be a financial winner for Logos, and I genuinely hope it is so.  I am happy for all those who are excited about this set.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 4:26 AM

MJD:
I am convinced the MVP star stands for "Most Verbal Proponent", always defending for the MAN....Hmm

Which tells me that you have not really read my posts. However, I do not wish to engage in an argument on this subject.

Posts 348
Mathew Haferkamp | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 5:41 AM

Jack I bet you typed that with grit teeth.  But I bought the EEC collection on option 8 plan, spead out over the most time with small number of payments.  I am excited about what LOGOS is going to do with this collection!!!!  I mean look at their software it is amazing!!!!

Posts 54
(na) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 6:44 AM

Funny enough, all the prestigious commentaries I've read so far for my degree are narrowly preteristic. There's no such thing as a "neutral", non-biased position, so I would prefer a consistent hermeneutic over a messy one. After all, it is supposed to be a united set of commentaries, it would be a bit of a mess if the volumes weren't unified.

Posts 386
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 6:57 AM

Jack Caviness:

MJD:
I am convinced the MVP star stands for "Most Verbal Proponent", always defending for the MAN....Hmm

Which tells me that you have not really read my posts. However, I do not wish to engage in an argument on this subject.

Jack - I am a big fan of Logos. Smile I also am a fan of yours and the other MVP's -- You all are the part of what makes the forum GREAT!!!  Thank you!

But, I still don't agree with every decision they make, or post other members make.  My comment was "tongue and cheek" about the MVP.  However, there is some truth wrapped into my remark, and I had to chuckle when you quickly posted on behalf of  the employees needing a paycheck. I get that.

First, you should  know I am heavily invested in Logos product, I have the Portfolio edition with a total of 4,200 resources.  I think this shows my believe in the company loudly.

I always look at both sides from the consumer and the company perspective.  But, I happen to be the consumer, and I think great ideas have spawned out of this forum from consumers objections over the years. 

My original response was an effort to affect change, not to stop Logos employees from getting a paycheck.  I still believe if Logos wants prepayment for the EEC, they need to offer broader concessions... starting with a "no service fee" long term payment plan. 

I already have many sets of highly regarded commentaries, so I for one have decided not to participate in the EEC pre-order because of the limited offer.  If it were a pre-pub offer and the goods were ready, I would have been on board.  But, I am not going to participate otherwise unless there is great incentive. 

Blessings in King Jesus,

Mike

 

 

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 7:04 AM

Michael Childs, I am wondering what do you mean by dispensational?

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 8:22 AM

Jim VanSchoonhoven:
Michael Childs, I am wondering what do you mean by dispensational?

I hope Michael and you don't mind me chirping in here. I'm sure Michael will answer but I wanted to share a couple points.

Here are two commentaries with a dispensational view:
New American Commentary
The Bible Knowledge Commentary
You probably have them in your Logos base package.

Glance over this list to see if you've heard of these authors:
 http://www.theologicalstudies.org/40sourcesonDispensationalism.html

There are many who believe there is enough Biblical basis to form a complete theology around the idea. Many have written impressive works in all areas of Bible study. Please don't think I reject Dispensationalism completely but abusive extremes can be found in any belief system and sometimes result in people rejecting a school of thought because of the extremists in the camp. (They put the "dis" back in "sensationalism" Stick out tongue )

Harold Camping is a dispensationalst who sets precise dates for Christ's return. I say  "dates"  because Harold has done this before. He has been wrong every time. The latest prediction is May 11th 2011.      http://www.wecanknow.com/ is his website. I'm just curious:

  • Has Family Radio sold any advertising for 05/12/2011 or beyond?
  • What about programing plans beyond that date?
  • When Harold missed the last prediction was Family Radio off the air for lack of future planning?
  • Are they withholding FICA taxes from their employees' paychecks?

I can understand a Logos user wondering out loud if Jesus will return before the last volume of the EEC is published. I don't believe we should quit our studies or work for God because we discover this life is ending.

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Posts 188
Si | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 9:33 AM

Matthew C Jones:
Here are two commentaries with a dispensational view:
New American Commentary
The Bible Knowledge Commentary

While it is true that The Bible Knowledge Commentary is dispensational, the New American Commentary is not.  There are some dispensationalist commentators in the series (e.g. Eugene Merrill on Deuteronomy and Danny Akin on 1,2,3 John), but the series is not predominately dispensational.  Some of the commentators were my professors in seminary (Block, Schreiner, Garrett), and I know for a fact they are not dispensationalists.  There are many other contributors that I am familiar with, and know that they are also not dispensationalists.  For example, Craig Blomberg, the commentator on Matthew, edited the book A Case for Historic Premillennialism: An Alternative to "Left Behind.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 9:44 AM

MJD:
ack - I am a big fan of Logos. Smile I also am a fan of yours and the other MVP's -- You all are the part of what makes the forum GREAT!!!  Thank you!

Aw, shucks, now I'm embarrassed Embarrassed Big Smile

MJD:
But, I still don't agree with every decision they make, or post other members make. 

Neither do I. A man who worked for me in the USN was fond of saying, "My father would say if two people always agree, at least one of them is not thinking." 

MJD:
I had to chuckle when you quickly posted on behalf of  the employees needing a paycheck. I get that.

Perhaps I should have posted a big toothy grin with that remark. Big Smile

MJD:
I for one have decided not to participate in the EEC pre-order because of the limited offer.

On the other hand, I decided to participate because of the payment plan—and because of the Dispensational authors involved. My library needs better balance.

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 9:49 AM

Matthew C Jones:
The latest prediction is May 11th 2011. 

Then, this entire discussion is moot. We won't even see the first volume, and Logos will not charge our credit cards even once. Thanks for the information, Matthew, now I can know that I wasted my time trying to determine whether or not to order this resource (I did). Big Smile

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 11:22 AM

Si Cochran:
While it is true that The Bible Knowledge Commentary is dispensational, the New American Commentary is not.

Yes, you are correct that the entire commentary is not dispensational in view. I was trying to offer resource examples that everyone is likely to own in their base packages.  I guess I din't do so well on that one.  Here are some Logos resources that are definitively dispensational:

John Nelson DarbyLewis Sperry Chafer  , Harry IronsideCharles Ryrie  , John Walvoord  ,  Arno Gaebelein  , E.W. Bullinger

Some other noteworthy Dispensationalists are:
Harold Willmington,  Wilmington's Guide to the Bible (Includes content from "12 Stages from the Book of Ages")
C. I. Scofield,  The Scofield Bible (Moody Bible Institute offered the Scofield Course for decades.)

http://withchrist.org/JND.pdf (simple little chart, though not exhaustive)

My all time favorite has got to be the not-so humble book entitled "The Greatest Book on "Dispensational Truth" in the World" by Clarence Larkin. You really have to see his charts to appreciate him. Free online version with charts here:  http://www.preservedwords.com/disptruth/title.htm

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 12:27 PM

Matthew C Jones:
Here are some Logos resources that are definitively dispensational:

None of the resources you mention are on the same scholarly level as the EEC promises to become. That is the main feature that inspired me to pre-order the set. 

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 1:28 PM

Matthew C. Jones, thanks for your reply, but you misunderstood my point.  I was asking Michael Childs, what he meant by dispensational, because he said he grew up as one put is not one now.

This made me wonder what belief he had held but no longer holds.

I am doing my ThD with a lot of work in this area and have come to the conclusion that most people really have no idea what it means to be a dispensationalist.  There is a lot of confusion caused by assuming doctrines that a dispensationalist might have, are a result of them being a dispensationalist when in many cases these extra beliefs are just out right false teachings and not as a result of their belief in dispensations.

Your example of Harold Camping is a perfect example.  I know of him, but have never really studied his view on dispensationalism so I am not sure if he is a dispensationalist, but the fact that he sets dates is not because he is a dispensationalist.

And yet people think this is part of dispensationalism.

There are also many covenant believers that hold false teachings that are not the result of their covenant beliefs let's not say those false doctrine are because they hold a covenant belief.

I am simply wondering what teaching it was that  Michael Childs gave up as being dispensational.

For example of what a dispensationalist believes I would say Charles C. Ryrie has a good idea about what a dispensation is: 

As far as the use of the word in Scripture is concerned, a dispensation may be defined as a stewardship, administration, oversight, or management of others’ property.

A concise definition of a dispensation is this: A dispensation is a distinguishable economy in the outworking of God’s purpose. 

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 2:36 PM

Jim VanSchoonhoven:

There is a lot of confusion caused by assuming doctrines that a dispensationalist might have, are a result of them being a dispensationalist when in many cases these extra beliefs are just out right false teachings and not as a result of their belief in dispensations.

Your example of Harold Camping is a perfect example.  I know of him, but have never really studied his view on dispensationalism so I am not sure if he is a dispensationalist, but the fact that he sets dates is not because he is a dispensationalist.

And yet people think this is part of dispensationalism.

There are also many covenant believers that hold false teachings that are not the result of their covenant beliefs let's not say those false doctrine are because they hold a covenant belief.

I quite agree that not all beliefs held by Covenanteers or Dispensationalists are necessarily part of their labels. They are complimentary doctrines that are usually an extreme manifestation of the base doctrines. I had a good friend who said he was more Calvinist than John Calvin. A Pentecostal friend told me he was promoting all the cashless economy he could to usher in the last days and hasten the return of the Lord. I would call myself a dispensationalist in the classical definition but will not dogmatically argue with anyone on the point.  I favor Harold Wilmington's  "12 stages"  for the teaching outline alone, even if I did not agree with the underlying concept.

In regards to what Michael Childs may or may not express concerning his personal adherence to the doctrines of dispensationalism,  I doubt he could make a convincing argument that ALL writers for the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary are dispensationalists in perspective. (Not all "evangelicals" are, you know.)

Incidentally,  I doubt any of the authors in Logos I mentioned above would agree with setting specific dates for the return of our Lord.  I saved a lot of money in 1988 when I bought the Rapture cassette tapes at my local Zondervan Family Bookstore; one day after it was predicted to happen. Since I don't believe Jesus missed the rapture I must presume the "prophet" was false on that one.  Devil

 

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