Expositor's Bible Commentary -- Original vs. Revised
Logos currently has a sale on the EBC for $129.99: http://www.logos.com/product/5457/the-expositors-bible-commentary. But this is the original, and a revised EBC has been produced during 2005-2010 (2 volumes forthcoming): http://www.bestcommentaries.com/series/revised-expositor-s-bible-commentary-rebc/.
The revision does not appear to be yet available on Logos. Does anyone know how extensive the changes are in the revised EBC?
Comments
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I personally do not own either set but am itching to get the revised version in Logos. I asked the same question in another forum and the replies suggested that it is a pretty big rewrite with different authors.
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Rick Hypes said:
I personally do not own either set but am itching to get the revised version in Logos. I asked the same question in another forum and the replies suggested that it is a pretty big rewrite with different authors.
Rick, that is helpful to hear. I had searched for a discussion of it here in the Logos forums before posting, but had found nothing. What was the other forum where you got the information?
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I have the old set and it is well worth the price. One of the big plus factors for me is it presents many things from a dispensational view point, which gives a balance to many of my other resources.
The scholarship level is about the same as the Tyndale series. I uses both often to see both sides of issues. Both contain solid scholarship as far as they go. This allows almost anyone to get a good handle on a passage for further research and studies. On the real positive side these commentaries are on both the New and Old Testament, which is also important to help balance most of the Logos libraries out. Too many sets have no OT coverange!
I will also consider the new set when it comes to Logos, it will be alot different from the old set. I hope it sticks with the dispensational point of view on most passages, but it will be worth considering even if it does not.
In Christ,
Jim VanSchoonhoven
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Keith ... this is directly from the Zondervan site. What is most impressive to me was the irenical treatment of opposing opinions.
This is a completely revised edition of Gold Medallion Award-winning Expositor’s Bible Commentary. This revised commentary has undergone substantial revisions that keep pace with current evangelical scholarship and resources. Just as its previous edition, it offers a major contribution to the study and understanding of the Scriptures. Providing pastors and Bible students with a comprehensive and scholarly tool for the exposition of the Scriptures and the teaching and proclamation of the gospel, this ten-volume reference work has become a staple of seminary and college libraries and pastors’ studies worldwide. Its fifty-six contributors—thirty of them are new—represent the best in evangelical scholarship committed to the divine inspiration, complete trustworthiness, and full authority of the Bible.As before, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary features full NIV text, but also refers freely to other translations and to the original languages. In addition to its exposition, each book of the Bible has an introduction, outline, and an updated bibliography. Notes on textual questions and special problems are correlated with the expository units; transliteration and translation of Semitic and Greek words make the more technical notes accessible to readers unacquainted with the biblical languages. In matters where marked differences of opinion exist, commentators, while stating their own convictions, deal fairly and irenically with opposing views.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Keith Gant said:
What was the other forum where you got the information?
I asked about it in a Logos competitor's forum. Their forums are within the program itself and not accessible via the web. I know that Logos has clarified the mentioning of other programs in the Logos forums but out of respect I will not mention the name. If you would like to know, please email me at rick68 at vqme com You will get a "challenge response" where you have to type two words since your email address won't be recognized the first time you email me. Once you type the two words, it will come to my inbox. I know it is a hassle but it keeps me from getting a lot of bad stuff.
I am copy/pasting the pertinent parts below:
ME: While visiting a local Bible bookstore two days ago I noticed that Zondervan
has released a revised version of the Expositor's Bible Commentary (the volumes
have a brown cover which say "Revised" on them and it is now 13 volumes instead
of 12. Looking through one it looked great!Amazon says that some volumes are not yet released, I'm not sure.
I know that this is very early in the game, but can anyone from <competitor program>
(or anyone else for that matter) comment on whether or not the revised edition
might have a chance to be seen in <competitor program>?Any information (if known) would be cool to know.
Thanks
Below is a excerpt from Amazon.
<< Begin copy/paste>>
Product Description:
This is a completely revised edition of
Gold Medallion Award-winning Expositor's Bible Commentary. This revised
commentary has undergone substantial revisions that keep pace with current
evangelical scholarship and resources. Just as its previous edition, it offers a
major contribution to the study and understanding of the Scriptures. Providing
pastors and Bible students with a comprehensive and scholarly tool for the
exposition of the Scriptures and the teaching and proclamation of the gospel,
this ten-volume reference work has become a staple of seminary and college
libraries and pastors' studies worldwide. Its fifty-six contributors---thirty of
them are new---represent the best in evangelical scholarship committed to the
divine inspiration, complete trustworthiness, and full authority of the Bible.
As before, The Expositor's Bible Commentary features full NIV text, but also
refers freely to other translations and to the original languages. In addition
to its exposition, each book of the Bible has an introduction, outline, and an
updated bibliography. Notes on textual questions and special problems are
correlated with the expository units; transliteration and translation of Semitic
and Greek words make the more technical notes accessible to readers unacquainted
with the biblical languages. In matters where marked differences of opinion
exist, commentators, while stating their own convictions, deal fairly and
irenically with opposing views.Reply: I would love to see the updated EBC in <competitor program>. It is a complete re-write with new
authors.ME:
> I would love to see the updated EBC in <competitor program> . It is a complete re-write
with
> new authors.
Hi rcs_mike,
I thought that it was a new rewrite with a different format even (more color
etc), but could not be 100% sure. I have only looked at the first version
briefly and simply thought "another book" to myself but when I browsed through
the revised version there was a more exciting reaction from this time. Thanks
for confirming that it is a complete rewrite.0 -
Just voted for this set on the facebook like -a-thon. It is generating some interest had over 200 likes,maybe we'll see it get knocked down to 50% off0
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I love my "Original" copy, but would love for Logos to upgrade us for free to the "Revised" copy. By the way, the price for the original is great considering how much time you save looking up cross references within the commentaries; plus, is a complete OT & NT set, even though is a little bit uneven in some books. But I highly recommend it. Some practical outlines that can preach too if you want to do a brief overview of a book.
DA
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The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Revised Edition (13 vols.) is now on Pre-Pub! http://www.logos.com/product/20185/expositors-bible-commentary-revised-edition
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That's nearly half of what I paid for the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary (groan). Fortunately I only have a couple payments left (I went with the 12-month payoff plan for the EEC). I have the old EBC. Logos is going to be the death of my bank account.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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I see that there is the possibility of getting it cheaper if you own the original already. Would you lose the original, or keep both if you went this route?
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Mathew Voth said:
I see that there is the possibility of getting it cheaper if you own the original already. Would you lose the original, or keep both if you went this route?
Where do you see that?
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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$45 savings.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Mathew Voth said:
I see that there is the possibility of getting it cheaper if you own the original already. Would you lose the original, or keep both if you went this route?
You lose nothing, you get to keep both!
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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I put in my pre-pub order today. You will still have the original EBC plus the new revised version. Some of the same authors are in the revised version but I understand that most of the authors have changed. It maintains the same theological perspective as the orginial commentary set. Therefore, you basically get a completely new set of commentaries in the same great format and quality as the original set. There is special pricing for those who already own the set but the special pricing expires on May 15th. For the commentaries that are written by the same author in the original set, they authors have enhanced and updated their material - especially in the introductions. Money is tight...but I couldn't let this one pass.
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Me, too. It's still not cheap, though, at $275.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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I own the original and really have enjoyed it, but it's hard to justify upgrading to the new revised volumes. Logos can do whatever they want, but IMO they are going to have to do better than discounting original owners $45 if they want a good number of us to buy.
I just don't see the vast majority of original EBC owners switching anytime soon - if ever. Not for $275 anyway. And with the dirt cheap price of the original EBC, I'd assume that many people thinking about purchasing EBC will still opt to purchase the original over the new revised volumes.
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Josh said:
I'd assume that many people thinking about purchasing EBC will still opt to purchase the original over the new revised volumes.
I'd assume that the "original" will disappear fairly quickly. Perhaps even before the updated ones ship.
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alabama24 said:Josh said:
I'd assume that many people thinking about purchasing EBC will still opt to purchase the original over the new revised volumes.
I'd assume that the "original" will disappear fairly quickly. Perhaps even before the updated ones ship.
I would be shocked if this happened - Logos carries the old ISBE still. However, maybe you're correct.
EDIT: And if you are correct - I would be very thankful I picked up the original set when I did.
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Josh said:
Logos carries the old ISBE still. However, maybe you're correct.
Do you mean the The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1915 Edition, on community pricing?
Josh said:I would be shocked if this happened
The question you have to ask yourself… Do the publishers still print the old versions? For some resources, yes. For some, for a limited time only. For many, no. My guess is that these fall into the middle category. Logos might not be able to sell the old ones once the new ones are available, per publishers request. It may also be that this will happen very quickly. I have no insider knowledge, but I could speculate about something… The product page says that the discount "expires May 15, 2012." It may be that this resource will be on a (seemingly) very short development cycle, because work had already begun on it.
Again, my speculations with Logos have often been VERY wrong. [:D]
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I think the pricing is being driven by Zondervan and not Logos. Over time and for many reasons, I get less and less interested in Zondervan titles.
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alabama24 said:
The question you have to ask yourself… Do the publishers still print the old versions? For some resources, yes. For some, for a limited time only. For many, no. My guess is that these fall into the middle category. Logos might not be able to sell the old ones once the new ones are available, per publishers request. It may also be that this will happen very quickly. I have no insider knowledge, but I could speculate about something… The product page says that the discount "expires May 15, 2012." It may be that this resource will be on a (seemingly) very short development cycle, because work had already begun on it.
I can certainly understand this for dead tree products, but we are in a new era. There is nothing to print for electronic titles. It wouldn't cost Zondervan very much (if anything) to keep this resource alive. I'm not convinced that the revised editions make the original editions irrelevant - even if there is some overlap.
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Josh said:
It wouldn't cost Zondervan very much (if anything) to keep this resource alive.
It would cost Zondervan the most important thing to them… Sales of the newer, more profitable edition!
Josh said:I'm not convinced that the revised editions make the original editions irrelevant - even if there is some overlap.
I understand your position, and am not trying to argue that it should be one way or the other, but rather to explain to you why your argument probably doesn't make sense to the publisher. [:S]
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I'll pass- even with the discount, its to high- just my opinion, everyone else enjoy.
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
I'll pass- even with the discount, its to high- just my opinion, everyone else enjoy.
I agree. I am in the same situation: I would love this revised edition, but it is just too expensive.
Armin
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Would you need to pay out the $275 at once, or is that doable on the time basis? I'm absolutely sure this will be a splendid resource. The EBC sets a great balance for useful material without overwhelming the reader.
The only downside is if they put the NIV 2011as the base text. The NIV was adequate, but I would prefer the scholar to make his own translation.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Michael, I don't know if pre-pubs can be financed. I doubt it.
I'm still kicking this around. We have 10 more days to decide. The old set has 10,078 pages. The new has 11,939. The claim of 60% more content is confusing to me.
http://www.TrinityExamined.com
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Don't they mean new content? I.e. old stuff has been replaced...
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
I'll pass- even with the discount, its to high- just my opinion, everyone else enjoy.
I would pass also... if there would not be Jeremiah volume of Dr. Michael Brown... and edited Carson on Matthew... and... well, I have to think. We have 10 days to consider that.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
I would pass also... if there would not be Jeremiah volume of Dr. Michael Brown... and edited Carson on Matthew... and... well, I have to think. We have 10 days to consider that.
Bohuslav sorry to disappoint you. Basically you already have Carson new entry in the old edition. In the new edition Carson's entry has been revised lightly; I could not tell the difference between the two, reading them side by side. If correction of typo and improved English grammar/sentence for clarity counts as revision, then fine. I hardly could find new information, that is not to say they were none but they could not be easily found. Carson's volume in all honesty should not be considered as a revision.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Ted Hans said:
If correction of typo and improved English grammar/sentence for clarity counts as revision, then fine. I hardly could find new information, that is not to say they were none but they could not be easily found. Carson's volume in all honesty should not be considered as a revision.
Ted, you raise for me a good point: what counts as revision? I think often I expect more revising and rewriting than what is done. I do see that they have completely new authors in some books, and it would be nice to get some review of them.
I don't think the set price is bad at all, but it is not one that makes me jump on it when I am counting pennies, especially since it is not a complete rewrite. that said, I note two things that interest me:
- George Guthrie does James. He has done excellent in Hebrews (in multiple sets) and his work in James should be very good.
- RT France does Hebrews. He is not premill, and most of what I can tell of the old set, the authors are. is that somewhat of a departure for the set, or does it not matter as much since apocalyptic literature is not in the fore in Hebrews?
Peace.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
Ted, you raise for me a good point: what counts as revision? I think often I expect more revising and rewriting than what is done. I do see that they have completely new authors in some books, and it would be nice to get some review of them.
I don't think the set price is bad at all, but it is not one that makes me jump on it when I am counting pennies, especially since it is not a complete rewrite. that said, I note two things that interest me:
- George Guthrie does James. He has done excellent in Hebrews (in multiple sets) and his work in James should be very good.
- RT France does Hebrews. He is not premill, and most of what I can tell of the old set, the authors are. is that somewhat of a departure for the set, or does it not matter as much since apocalyptic literature is not in the fore in Hebrews?
Peace.
Leaving Carson aside, I was Impressed with Mark L. Strauss revision of Walter W. Wessel on Mark in the revised edition, new info added.That also goes for the Luke volume revised by David W. Pao
I am happy with the revised edition and I think it is better than the old ( I have the revised edition in hard copy). On the New Testament I was expecting a much more stronger entry from Andreas Kostenberger but due to limitation of space I did did not think he lived up to his usual standard.
My comment above to Bohuslav was in relation to Carson in particular not a commentary on the revised edition as a whole. I have placed an order (Pre-Pub) for the revised edition and am more than happy with the entries of the new authors assigned for the New Testament.
Dan DeVilder said:George Guthrie does James. He has done excellent in Hebrews (in multiple sets) and his work in James should be very good.
Yes it is [Y]
Dan DeVilder said:RT France does Hebrews. He is not premill, and most of what I can tell of the old set, the authors are. is that somewhat of a departure for the set, or does it not matter as much since apocalyptic literature is not in the fore in Hebrews?
Neither was Leon Morris (Amil) who wrote the old edition. I do think that R.T. France work is better than Morris.
Regards
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Ted Hans said:Bohuslav Wojnar said:
I would pass also... if there would not be Jeremiah volume of Dr. Michael Brown... and edited Carson on Matthew... and... well, I have to think. We have 10 days to consider that.
Bohuslav sorry to disappoint you. Basically you already have Carson new entry in the old edition. In the new edition Carson's entry has been revised lightly; I could not tell the difference between the two, reading them side by side. If correction of typo and improved English grammar/sentence for clarity counts as revision, then fine. I hardly could find new information, that is not to say they were none but they could not be easily found. Carson's volume in all honesty should not be considered as a revision.
Thanks Ted for the clarification. I appreciate that. I like Carson's original version very much and don't see any need for revision. To be true I really need (or want?) the Michael Brown's Jeremiah. I really am looking forward to this one. To be true, from the old series I actually use regularly only Carson's Matthew.
Bohuslav
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
I'll pass- even with the discount, its to high- just my opinion, everyone else enjoy.
+1
Grace & Peace,
Bill
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iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Bought Expositor's when it was a stand-alone Windows product. Then I "upgraded" ($) to the Logos version for about the same price. Will pass on paying again (seems like if it has 60% more content, the upgrade price should be 60% of the pre-pub price.. but that's just me).
It is a quality resource, but I'll remain happy with my old-school version.
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If they were willing to change 60% of the content, why not just go ahead a change the other 40% and create a whole new commentary series? I hate to say it, but this reminds me of when a music artist creates an album of past hits and remixes a few songs instead of making a new album. It's about making money.
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Josh said:
If they were willing to change 60% of the content, why not just go ahead a change the other 40% and create a whole new commentary series? I hate to say it, but this reminds me of when a music artist creates an album of past hits and remixes a few songs instead of making a new album. It's about making money.
I have thought that about other "revised" sets, but not in this one. I think some of the ones that they did not change, like Carson's, are because they are standards and well respected. (see Bohuslav's comments above). Whereas some of the other sections were not so helpful (Luke, for instance). It's nice they improved those (if Ted is to be believed . . . and I generally think Ted is a stand-up guy! [;)]) And, generally speaking, what they are charging is not that much for a set, even if improved by 60% instead of 100%. I just can't afford them right now.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
To be true I really need (or want?) the Michael Brown's Jeremiah.
tell me about that, Bo--what makes it special to you?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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It's not cheap, but in addition to discussing the actual cost, it's worth comparing the comparables in hard copy version (and other ebook options, like Kindle). Amazon offers individual volumes for about $30 per volume (plus or minus a few dollars). That's about $390 or so; Kindle prices are a bit lower, but not nearly as functional as Logos (and not all are currently available, but I'm guessing it would probably be about $325 or so for all of them?). And significantly cheaper used copies won't be around in any quantity for several years, I would guess. The entire set hardcover (available in November on Amazon) will be $454 (so, cheaper to buy the 13 volumes individually, it appears). So, if you're looking at this set, the Logos pricing is actually pretty good. That's assuming a bit, of course.
I, like one of the other posters on this thread, finds Zondervan's pricing strategy (and bundling strategy) makes me unhappy with them and I find myself gravitating to other resources. But it's their company and they can run it as they like. I'm just not sure they have fully figured out ebook pricing and strategy yet. But then, I'm not sure anyone has...I'm thinking about this one and haven't quite decided yet. Since I have the original, with the extra discount I may be able to convince myself!
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Carl Sanders said:
Since I have the original, with the extra discount I may be able to convince myself
[:)] I do, but only in harcover and on Pradis. arrrrrrrgh. SOME day, I will own this new set.
which are some of the volumes you value in this set? (either old or revised) I assume Carson makes the list, but beyond his . . .
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:Carl Sanders said:
Since I have the original, with the extra discount I may be able to convince myself
I do, but only in harcover and on Pradis. arrrrrrrgh. SOME day, I will own this new set. which are some of the volumes you value in this set? (either old or revised) I assume Carson makes the list, but beyond his . . .
Here are my top 7:
1. Carson on Matthew
2. Tenney on John
3. Boice on Galatians
4. Morris on Hebrews
5. Kaiser on Exodus
6. Harris on Leviticus
7. VanGemeren on Psalms
Blessings!
DAL
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The "upgrade" price is about $100 too high IMHO. However, this is not completely surprising for a Zondervan product.
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I have the EBC for Logos and have pre-ordered the revised EBC. The original is very useful and I anticipate more of the same from the revised edition. But my question is what do Logos (or Zondervan?) mean when they say that "This new series contains 60% more content..."?
The original EBC has 10078 pages and the new, revised EBC has 11939 pages: a difference of 1861 pages. The number of additional pages works out as about 18% of an increase, so what does "60% more content" mean? Does anyone know?
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Gordon Jones said:
what does "60% more content" mean?
I too wondered about this. For instance, is the barely revised Carson (on Matthew) included in the 60% and, if so, is the entirety of this work counted (as it is, technically, a revised work)?
I appreciate that the 60% is, no doubt, an approximation rather than a precise figure, but further clarification would be appreciated, particularly as the price is $16 higher (for 40% less content) than the entirety of previous version (I bought the previous version on prepublication).
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Hello, all! Good questions and discussion here. I plan to be back on later today to (hopefully) answer some of these questions.
Jesse
Zondervan
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Jesse Hillman said:
Hello, all! Good questions and discussion here. I plan to be back on later today to (hopefully) answer some of these questions.
Thanks, Jesse, really appreciate any information you can provide.
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Dan DeVilder said:Bohuslav Wojnar said:
To be true I really need (or want?) the Michael Brown's Jeremiah.
tell me about that, Bo--what makes it special to you?
Yes, I know it might be very subjective opinion. I just really like to read and listen to anything Michael Brown teaches. His debates with rabbis are also excellent IMHO. I would really like to have a commentary written by this great IMHO messianic scholar.
Bohuslav
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Hopefully some of the following is helpful.
--Jesse, Zondervan
New content vs. revised content
I agree that it’s difficult to grasp this
given that this revision has been carried out differently than other commentary
revisions.That being said, you can quantify the number
of books that receive new commentaries by new contributors.Old Testament
- Commentary on 17 books is brand
new, by new contributors - Commentary on 3 books revised and
updated by other scholars - Commentary on 19 books revised
and updated by original contributor
New Testament
- Commentary on 17 books is brand
new, by new contributors - Commentary on 3 books revised and
updated by other scholars - Commentary on 7 books revised and
updated by original contributor
What's difficult to quantify is the amount of revision and updating. It was significant for some books, while less so for others.
The 60% “more content” reference being used
reflects our best approximation of what’s new. It would include, obviously, the
brand new commentaries from new contributors (which is easy to quantify) but
also a small amount reflecting what other contributors have added as they
revised the original.One way to think about it: you get brand new
commentary on 34 books of the Bible by some of the very best contemporary
scholars. Commentary on all remaining biblical books has been brought up to
date and revised/expanded as necessary, thus ensuring it’s in line with current
scholarship.0 - Commentary on 17 books is brand
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Jesse Hillman said:
One way to think about it: you get brand new
commentary on 34 books of the Bible by some of the very best contemporary
scholars. Commentary on all remaining biblical books has been brought up to
date and revised/expanded as necessary, thus ensuring it’s in line with current
scholarship.Actually, Jesse, that is very helpful. Thank you very much for taking the time to provide this information.
I will ponder over the next couple of days as to whether to place an order while the offer of the upgrade is still available.
Thanks once again.
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Hey Jesse,
Thanks for that information - it is good to know more about the composition of new, updated and original material!
Clearly, however, the Logos page (http://www.logos.com/product/20185/expositors-bible-commentary-revised-edition) which claims that the revised commentary series "contains 60% more content" is in error, when it ought to use the word "new." Perhaps you could ask Logos to correct this misleading statement. [:)]
Blessings!
0
