I CAN NOT GET THRUGTH MY WIFE THAT GOD BECAME FLESH WISH IS CHRIST IN HUMAN FORM,WHAT CAN I DO TO SHOW HER THAT IN BIBLICAL VERSES,OR IN WHAT COMMENTARY I CAN FIND THAT
Once again Walter, greetings! :-)
Please do not type in all caps, on the internet that is considered SHOUTING. And it's rude.
I would suggest you begin simultaneously in two areas.
The first being prayer that God will open both you and your wife's eyes to see his word with spiritual eyes - remember your wife is not an adversary but your partner in life, treat her gently and with understanding lest your prayers be rejected.
Your second course of action depends upon her willingness to participate in a study with you. You may want to consult a few theology books, most (all?) systematic theologies will go into the study of the person and work of Jesus Christ, this is known as Christology.
There are, many portions of scripture which help to define this doctrine, recently I was greatly drawn in by a personal study of Isaiah 52:13-53:12 which is Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering servant some 700 years before Jesus was born.
Please let us know what library you have and we will attempt to direct you towards specific resources to help you in your study.
Hi Walter
One approach would be to search for "Incarnation" in any Encyclopedia you might have.
I don't know what resources / package you have but when I did this I found a range of resources.
Easton's Bible Dictionary - which is common to all base packages apart from Original Languages - has
INCARNATION — that act of grace whereby Christ took our human nature into union with his Divine Person, became man. Christ is both God and man. Human attributes and actions are predicated of him, and he of whom they are predicated is God. A Divine Person was united to a human nature (Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32; 1 Cor. 2:8; Heb. 2:11–14; 1 Tim. 3:16; Gal. 4:4, etc.). The union is hypostatical, i.e., is personal; the two natures are not mixed or confounded, and it is perpetual.
M.G. Easton, Easton's Bible Dictionary (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).
You might find some of those references useful.
Without knowing the questions your wife is asking - and forum guidelines require us to keep from discussing theological issues here - I don't know what else to advise.
Hope this helps
Graham
PS: Please avoid using All Capitals when posting in the forum.
Walter,
Do you have Logos? Try looking at the Gospel of John chapter 8, verses 56-59. Compare this to John 10:30-33. Check thecommentaries you have regarding what Jesus is saying in these 2 passages but the passages really seem to interpret themselves rather clearly. Revelation 1:8-17 or so should also have some interesting information in any commentaries. John MacArthur's commentary on John or his "MacArthur Bible Studies:John" book should work well also. They are inexpensive and he is usually quite clear in his exposition.
http://www.logos.com/product/2333/macarthur-bible-studies-john
http://www.logos.com/product/2958/john-1-11-the-macarthur-new-testament-commentary
Also, check your library for anything by Josh McDowell. That would be a good place to start. I do not believe this post voilates forum guidelines and offer my apologies ahead of time if it has. I'll check back for any responses.
How about Col. 2 9
Walter, I would be willing to share a study that I did on that largely using Logos resources. Not sure if I am allowed or even can post it here, but would be willing to email it.
It is not finished but is sitting at about 60,000 words, 20,000 of which are on John 20:28 which has really helped in my discussions with those who disagree on this point. Depends if you want that kind of depth and can deal with my VERY note format style
If you want a book that will go into great depth you cannot really get much better than Jesus is God by Robert Harris - not a Logos format book (it should be), but that would be a really good way to get thinking seriously about this issue. It will also be better than the doc I could send.
The Lord guided me to Acts 20 once as I prayed for a Scripture to give to a JW friend. This verse receives treatment in the Murray Harris' Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus.
Acts 20:28 | NAS
“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
Walter, I would be willing to share a study that I did on that largely using Logos resources. Not sure if I am allowed or even can post it here, but would be willing to email it. It is not finished but is sitting at about 60,000 words, 20,000 of which are on John 20:28 which has really helped in my discussions with those who disagree on this point. Depends if you want that kind of depth and can deal with my VERY note format style
Logos has a Topics web site http://topics.logos.com/ that is useful for reading lists. Noticed Jesus Christ page could use key passages for deity (e.g. John 20:28)
Wiki has Case Study example using Logos 4 => Case Study: Day of the Lord in Isaiah (perhaps create another Wiki page with Case Study example; many forum users can assist with Wiki editing help).
Keep Smiling [:)]
@ Matt LonghornI'd enjoy taking a look at your study if the offer is open to me.
Michael - happy to share with anyone - it is amateur stuff as I have not been to university and I am not sure if i am allowed to post here. If you are interested then my e-mail address is longhornm at hotmail.co.uk
Matt Longhorn
e-mail address is
Thanks for the advice Thomas - novice at work! seeing as I made that email addy yesterday to get away from spam you have probably saved me from a second change in a short period of time.
Matt
I agree with the prayer suggestion. Also, show her all of Christ's love that is humanly possible.
As far as scripture:
How about John 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
or, Titus 2:13 "while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"
or Hebrews 1:2-3 "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word."
or John chapter 1 "the Word was God...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."
Theologically, the Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. There is certainly mystery in One God who is revealed in three persons. So you may want to look up an article or two on the Trinity.
An excellent book on this topic is Putting Jesus in His Place, by Robert Bowman and Ed Komoszewski. In fact, it needs to be on Logos.
They teach the deity of Jesus using the HANDS acronym...
Jesus receives the HONORS due God
Jesus displays the ATTRIBUTES of God
Jesus is given the NAMES of God
Jesus performs the DEEDS of God
Jesus occupies the SEAT of God
@ Matt Longhorn
I'd enjoy taking a look at your study also..
Good morning Walter!
You may also consider, if you have these resources, books that counter "cult" objections to the deity of Christ. Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults, any of David Reed's material in Logos format, or any of the apologetic works either in L4 or otherwise. These books focus specifically on these types of questions. Also you may find the many websites that are helpful in your quest.
You have many people praying for you and your wife.
Walter ... I kind of agree with your wife. Before people get too excited, I attend/prefer 'evangelical' churches, and most appreciate our pastor for his attention to the text. Just looking at the citings above in the greek, the concept is quite arguable, until the 'late' writings. When our pastor was in Col 2, he admitted the discussion of Jesus' divinity wasn't a 'straight-shot', suggesting the monotheism of the Jews was a major stumbling block ( http://www.bible-sermons.org/sermons.html ). That's why Milkman's suggestions on monotheism have a lot merit, as people become more enamored with internet theology.
We also have to remember that the doctrine (church teaching) of the Trinity is not found in scripture. I believe that it is implied; it is just not stated.
As any guy knows, you cannot change your wife, so please do not try. That is God's job. Like Paul said, some plant, some water, but God gives the growth. (my paraphrase of 1 Corinthians 3:6)
Walter, I personally do not believe scripture or a commentary is the best source here. The best source for your wife about our risen Lord and Savior is you and how you treat her. By walking with her through the crap that life brings is the best source for her (and everyone else) to be able to understand the incarnation.
I personally do not believe scripture or a commentary is the best source here. The best source for your wife about our risen Lord and Savior is you and how you treat her. By walking with her through the crap that life brings is the best source for her (and everyone else) to be able to understand the incarnation.
Scripture is my recommendation. Sola scriptura.
Effective only if the wife accepts the sola scriptura doctrine.
Regardless of whether or not the wife (or anyone else for that matter) accepts the concept of sola scriptura, I would still recommend the Scriptures as the sole, authoritative source for learning about Christ. I doubt that there is any person who was accepting of the notion of sola scriptura when he or she first heard of Christ, and yet, the Spirit uses that Word (regardless of the person's acceptance/rejection/or knowledge of ss) to efficaciously call the lost. Yes, there are commentaries, and there are theologies, and perhaps one might even say that a person's lifestyle or experiences reflect some aspect of Christ ... but to the extent that any of these things are properly informed about Christ, it is because they are based on the scriptures. So why suggest secondary or tertiary sources of dubious reliability to the exclusion of the primary?
What about 1 Thess 2:8? "We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us."
Anyone else notice that the OP is not interacting with this thread?
Walter, are you paying attention here?
Is this helping? Do you need any more help beyond what's been offered already?
Hi Walter,
We haven't heard back from you since you first posted your request. After reading all of our suggestions, any comments from your end??
Looking at Walter's other post (Walter Roski Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2011 9:12 PMWHERE CAN I FIND IN LOGOS HOW MANY PEOPLE GOT OUT OF EGYPT WIHT MOSES) I'm not sure if he's really looking for a response from us. At least he might want to reply in some form or another.
Maybe a 'I got your posts' or he may simply be an area that regulates internet activity or something else might be behind his writings - - I wonder.
Or more likely, uncertain how forums work. I think we're done here until Walter responds.
THE WORD became flesh. Not God. Read what is really written in the Bible. The people made up their own doctrine claiming that Jesus is God. Jesus said himself that he has a God. And he said of himself that he is the SON of God. Why not just believe him? This article explains it very well.
https://www.staybiblical.com/jesus-is-not-god/
Welcome to the Logos software forums where we discuss the use of Faithlife software products. The guidelines are available at: Forum Guidelines - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)
Dear Walter,
In fact you don't need any biblesoftware or commentary to show your wife the truth about Gods Son. Read with her Gods Word, explain it to her and pray with her and for her. Trust in the revelation trough Gods Holy Spirit. She will see it if God opens her heart for it. There is nor other way.
The guidelines are available at: Forum Guidelines - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)
I suggest particular attention to the second one:
2. Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.
Hi Walter, if you have Logos I suggest you do a search "Jesus is God" to see what you have in your library. This is what mine returned with 1,488 results in 660 resources: Prayers for you and your wife!
And now a 2011 thread has been resurrected (among other old threads). Yep, 2020 has been a very peculiar year 😂😂😂
As soon as someone posts an unpopular view, the posting guidelines are invoked. I see how it works.
As soon as a first time forum user posts off-topic, they are gently directed to the guidelines as requested by Faithlife. I see how it "works.". Do enjoy your religious celebration.
Note: I assume you noticed that the first time forum poster revived a nine year old thread causing a spam red flag alert in my head.
I thought it was Christmas, not Easter. lol
Well not to be a contrarian... but...
I would take a different approach to teaching someone that does not believe ... Here's what I have done and would do....
I believe the faith God wants us to have must come from the Bible therefore I start with Romans 10:17. Let them read the verse and then let them explain what they think it means. Get them involved with God's Word.
Next, I would go to Hebrews 11:1-2. Generally, faith in God, to most people, means we believe in something we cannot see. While no man has seen God at any time, John 1:18, man must believe in God. How is this accomplished? Through the "evidences" (Heb 1:1-2) that God has given us. Tell them "I have never seen your brain, can you prove to me that you have one"? We know they have a brain because of the evidences they show that is because of their brain, thus we know they have a brain. What evidences does God give us about Himself? Trees, son shine, the earth, the heavens, etc are all evidences of God.
They need to understand also that the Bible is all about giving us evidences about God so we will believe in Him. And notice Hebrews 11:3. Let them read it for themselves.
Next I would now help them understand that faith from the evidences is to show God but also to show His Son Jesus Christ. For this I would go to John 3:36 and to John 8:24 to show whom they must focus their faith. Without faith in Jesus, they will not get to heaven.
And I would lead them to Hebrews 3:4. A house cannot build itself, neither can the earth and the heavens, but He that built all things is God. Have you ever seen a house build itself? Neither have I.
Now, there are many evidences in the Bible which I have left out of this and if needed, you should look them up and be ready to show them. Faith without the evidences God provides is just blind faith. God doesn't want blind faith, He wants people to believe He is the God and has given them all the evidences they need, if they will just look.
Belief alone does not save anyone. Look at James 2:19 for proof. The demons believed but were not saved. So to be saved the Bible teaches there is more. But for sure, the first step is that one must believe in Jesus Christ being the Son of God.
I'll be glad to carry this further if you want to contact me privately. Not sure if FL wants this to be carried on on the forum like this.
xnman, unfortunately, no theological discussions are allowed in the forums. Some have gotten very heated in the past and it does more harm than good. But, I do understand the steps.
This book is really helpful to understand how one is saved. It will be on sale individually sometime soon: https://www.logos.com/product/204152/the-bible-only-makes-christians-only-and-the-only-christians
DAL
DAL...
Thanks for the reminder... I have that book in my bookcase and I agree it is a great book. I did not know it was in Logos... I will definitely buy it.
Thanks again
DAL... Thanks for the reminder... I have that book in my bookcase and I agree it is a great book. I did not know it was in Logos... I will definitely buy it. Thanks again
The Thomas B. Warren just came out of prepub after a few years of struggling to make it out of there. The Warren—Flew debate is not included, unfortunately, but many other useful books are! Here’s the link to the collection: https://www.logos.com/product/54050/thomas-b-warren-collection
Dal --- Looks like I'll be on the naughty list before the year is out! lol. Thomas B Warren's works is worth it I think!
I would also love to see these in Logos also:
Truth for Today Commentary Series by Eddie Cloer bunch. Great commentaries.
A Source and Reference Volume on The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit by Goebel Music
Biblical Eldership: An Urgent Call to Restore Biblical Church Leadership by Alexander Strauch
Notes from the Margin of My Bible by Wayne Jackson
Just to name a few. To be able to search them and use Factbook and some of the study guides on these books..... oh man! A guy can dream! [8-|]
Notes from the margin of my Bible would be an excellent resource. If I had time I'd do a few verses per day and add them to my Bible notes in Logos, that way they'll show in my Bible anywhere I go. All of Wayne Jackson's books should be in Logos. May he rest in peace! I was shocked that he passed away early this month. Great soldier of the Cross!
