Beta 5 - CBV - new format question

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 17 2011 8:22 PM | Locked

Has anyone else tried out the new format for Copy Bible Verses yet? Its called Observation Worksheet. I can't see how it is really any different than the Oration - One Verse Per Line format except for the font and font size. (It isn't significantly different than One Verse Per Line either.)

I pasted into MS Word 2007 in making this observation.

If someone notes something really special, please enlighten me.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 17 2011 8:31 PM | Locked

Is it possibly for use with Proclaim?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 17 2011 8:37 PM | Locked

MJ. Smith:
Is it possibly for use with Proclaim?

Interesting thought. I had been thinking before I tried it that it might be formatted with wider margins and more space before or after chapters so one could use it as an observation worksheet - highlighting, making notes, etc. That doesn't seem to be the case.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 18 2011 12:09 AM | Locked

The main difference is that Observation Worksheet contains these two lines which are not in the other style:

%HeaderStyle=PassageHeader
%ForEachVerseStyle=Verse

This means you can set up styles in Word called PassageHeader and Verse which will get applied automatically when you paste in from Logos using this CBV style. So you could include extra spacing after each paragraph in the Verse style to leave room for handwritten notes. (Wouldn't make sense to use this for notes typed in, because you can easily insert them between the verse paragraphs, and the formatted vertical spacing cannot be typed in.)

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 18 2011 6:05 AM | Locked

Thanks Rosie. I guess that might help folks but Observation Style seems a strange title just for that.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 18 2011 7:00 AM | Locked

Mark Smith:

Observation Style seems a strange title just for that.

I have not used any Beta yet, but I think the naming may be intended to help users who use the Inductive Bible Study method where an Observation Worksheet seems to be critical in the process.

mick

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 18 2011 7:29 AM | Locked

NewbieMick:
I think the naming may be intended to help users who use the Inductive Bible Study method where an Observation Worksheet seems to be critical in the process.

That's sort of what I thought but as I said the format isn't at all unique nor specifically helpful for the purpose right out of the box. Linked with specific styles in MS Word I am sure it could be used that way. The 'trick' is knowing you need to do this to benefit from the new feature and then being comfortable creating the styles you'd want to see in order to do your study. At least it is possible with this format, just not intuitive.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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David Housholder | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 26 2011 9:26 AM | Locked

Mick suggests this style may be for inductive Bible study. But inductive Bible study does not use a verse by separate verse format. It is best done in a paragraph format, otherwise blocks of connected materials and transitions and such are not as clearly seen.

For noting observations in the text I would use a paragraph format, wide margins, and space and a half between lines.

But the big disappointment is that by the name of this style I thought Logos had finally found a way to copy the text along with my observations on the text, which would include my notes and my markings. Many of us have been asking for that for years and never seem to get any response from Logos. At Bible Tech 2010 one of the programmers said it was coming in a 2010 beta, but that didn't happen.

Meanwhile I see no value in the Observation Style (and whatever is the purpose of the "Oration" style?)

Dave

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Jim L. West | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 26 2011 11:30 AM | Locked

"Observation Worksheet" is what Kay Arthur calls the format her Precept Inductive Bible study uses. It is in verse by verse format, and the reason is to encourage individuals to discover the different textual divisions themselves. This LOGOS4 CBV format is basically the same.

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David Housholder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 29 2011 8:07 PM | Locked

Thanks, Jim, for clarifying the reason for the verse by verse layout. I can understand that purpose, but I would think the better form, if people are to find the structure for themselves, is a non-versified block of text. (is that what InterVarsity manuscript sheets are like?) The problem with verses being they already force the reader to assume a verse can stand alone.

But that's not a Logos issue. By the way, there is finally a superb book on inductive Bible study (which I hope will be in Logos format some day), Inductive Bible Study: A Comprehensive Guide to the Practice of Hermeneutics by Robert A Traina and David R Bauer.

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Jim L. West | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 30 2011 12:24 PM | Locked

I agree Dave. Whenever I start a book or passage I use "Bible Text Only" and then, on my first read through take out all the residual formatting (mostly punctuation) then start a sentence flow diagram or syntactic diagram (depending on the length of the passage. Which forces me to do the work and put the thought into it to discover the structure. However, when I am doing it for a "Precept" study I also use the "Observation Worksheet" in order to keep myself connected to what my students are doing. By the way, the only difference between a Precept OW and LOGOS OW is that Precept separates the verse numbers to the far left, putting them a little more out of the way, and keeping them as a place marker for the class discussion.

Thanks for the link to the book. I read every thing I can about Inductive Bible study, and have not seen this one.

Jim W

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Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 1 2011 7:49 AM | Locked

Is it just me, or is there no way to show just the bible text in paragraph format (i.e. remove pericopes, superscripts, and verse numbering)?  Bible text only actually seems worse to me, not better.

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 1 2011 7:57 AM | Locked

Mark Smith:

Thanks Rosie. I guess that might help folks but Observation Style seems a strange title just for that.

It does. I regularly copy my verses to Word and print them out for observation...But what I do is Bible Text Only and double or triple space it and mark it up like crazy. 

Jacob Hantla
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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 1 2011 8:00 AM | Locked

Mike S.:

Is it just me, or is there no way to show just the bible text in paragraph format (i.e. remove pericopes, superscripts, and verse numbering)?  Bible text only actually seems worse to me, not better.

edit:

 

%NoCharFormatting

%NoRedLetter

%NoFootnotes

%NoCitation

%UseBibleParagraphs

 

=ForEachVerse

[VerseText]

 

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

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Todd White (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 1 2011 8:12 AM | Locked

Mike S.:
is there no way to show just the bible text in paragraph format

Sounds like you want to use %UseBibleParagraphs

A sample might be something like:

%UseBibleParagraphs
%NoCharFormatting
%NoRedLetter
%NoFootnotes
%NoCitation

=ForEachVerse
[VerseText]

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