Where did this feature go: topic browser

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This post has 140 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2009 9:21 AM

Sean Boisen:

RossStrader:

I am really surprised that L4 cannot search the article titles and headings of resources ... Can you please advise if this is something to look forward to in the future, or is this a fundamental limitation in the new architecture?

Ross:

This is not a fundamental limitation of the new architecture: it's just one of literally hundreds of decisions we had to make about priorities and trade-offs. We all agree that it would be more useful to be able to search article titles and headings, and we'll definitely do what we can to address this issue in the future.

Making Topic searches in L4 less functional/usable is a step BACK for L4.  It was a function I used a lot, and hope it is re-incorporated to make it at LEAST AS functional as it is in L3.  If "topic search" isn't searching headings/titles then I think I'd rename it to "content" search or something, because it isn't really topical.

Posts 12
John A. English | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2009 10:05 AM

Please add me to the list of people that would like the topic browser function and the topical search as well.  It seems to me that this is a very difficult thing to accomplish. I can't imagine how it could be done without tags having to be added to all existing books - not a trivial task. 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2009 10:43 AM

Sean Boisen:
Adding a tab gives you a list of parallel resources: they may or may not have an entry that matches the thing you're looking for. To pick on my favorite obscure example, Anchor has an article on Japanese Biblical Scholarship. If you go to that article and then click on the + tab, you'll see a number of parallel resources: but none of them has an article on that subject. 

Sean, this isn't correct, and reinforces my point. If you click on the + tab on a slightly less obscure topic, say, for example, Bethlehem (Place) in Anchor, then you'll see two columns in the new tab. The lefthand column (which is what you were referring to) shows similar resources. As you said, it lists them regardless of whether the topic is included. But the right hand column shows only those resources which are relevant, presumably by mysteriously searching the headword, which is something we can't do. All I'm suggesting is that until you've manually tagged everything, you take this existing functionality and place it in the search function. Surely that must be relatively straightforward?

Posts 366
Ken F Hill | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2009 11:02 AM

Mark A. Smith:

That now makes 4,672 people who want better topic searching in 4.0

I'll join the club.

Posts 139
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 11:55 AM

Mark:

Thanks for clarifying, you're right that

  1. i misunderstood your initial suggestion
  2. i was talking about the left side, not the parallel resources column on the right

That seems like a useful suggestion, and please be assured that we're actively considering how to expand our functionality for topical search.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 2:11 PM

Thanks, Sean.

Posts 3809
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 3:24 PM

I don't know how well this will work until better topic searching comes but if you did YYY WITHIN 15 words YYY, maybe you could weed out at least single occurrence results. If you add more WITHIN statements you might even get closer.

Posts 260
Pastor Dan Cleghorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:12 AM

Thanks for considering our suggestions. The topic browswer in L3 is far better.

Posts 168
Bill Gordon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 8:39 PM

Sean Boisen:

Mark:

Could you articulate for me what you wish topic searching/browsing was like in 4.0? Can you walk me through a scenario of how you would use it?

I currently have 15 books in my Sermon Illustration Collection. I would have added more but Logos 4 doesn't have the ability to search the topic field! Even with my downsized collection I still get too many hits when I search for a key word. For example, when I search the collection for the word "love" I get 8,430 results in 3,301 articles! I want need the ability to limit the search to the topic "love" in these books! I don't want to waste my time reading through results that may use the word love, but are about a totally different topic. Also, the topics in the Bible dictionaries (that do show up in a search) are almost useless when looking for sermon illustrations.

There reason I spent the extra money to buy the sermon illustrations books is because I wanted to be able to find illustrations quickly. It is almost easier to find an illustration using the physical version of the book than it is using Logos 4! This is because these books have the topics indexed and are easy to find in the print versions. But wait, the electronic books must also have the topics indexed since I was able to search for them in Logos 3. It's just that Logos 4 is incapable of searching for topics.

I'm not hard to please. All I want is for Logos to say they are working to fix this problem. I can wait for a fix.

Posts 21
Jason Mc | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 6:43 PM

Yes I would love to see Topic search as per Topic Browser in L3 too.

POSSIBLE IMPLEMENTATION:

Once the tagging of headings and article titles is completed, for me the best possible implementation would be to add "Topics" into the search tab as per pic below - after Basic or after Bible.

95% of the searching I did in L3 were Bible and Topic Browser searches. I will do the same when L4 implements Topic search - as per Topic Browser or some better implementation.

 

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 2:38 AM

Jason Mc:
Once the tagging of headings and article titles is completed, for me the best possible implementation would be to add "Topics" into the search tab as per pic below - after Basic or after Bible.

I agree..that's consistent with the UI.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 146
Sam Henderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 4:45 AM

I want to add my voice requesting the return/implementation  of the Topic Browser in Logos 4 - for me it was the most useful type of search in Logos 3 and the one that I used most frequently. It acted as a kind of index page for my whole collection - as Harry says, filtering out the "noise" that clutters Logos 4's literalistic "Google" style searching, and as Mark says, offering sub-topics to help locate the exact nuance of the term I had in mind when I started the search.

I believe that Logos tagged many of their resources for significant topics and references and that this tagging was time consuming and expensive (which is why not every Logos book featured this type of tagging - usually the higher value ones). I remember them trumpeting how long it had taken them to topic tag the Early Church Fathers collection and why topic tagging made this Logos resource so much more useful than a mere public domain PDF version of the ECF which could only be searched literalistically for a simple word or literal phrase.

And that for me is the difference. Using the Topic Browser in Logos 3 was like going to the index page of a well edited book - you knew it would point you to significant and intelligently selected treatments of the search term/topic and offer you sub-topics to refine your choices. Searching in Logos 4 is more like searching a PDF or using Google - it offers you a series of occurences based on an alpha-numeric match (refined by a few fancy algorithms).

That worries me a bit. Have Logos dropped topic tagging their resource files because it's too time consuming and expensive for them? Have they made a strategic decision to privilege speed and quantity over refinement and quality in the search facilities they offer in Logos 4?

 

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 5:05 AM

SamHenderson:
That worries me a bit. Have Logos dropped topic tagging their resource files because it's too time consuming and expensive for them? Have they made a strategic decision to privilege speed and quantity over refinement and quality in the search facilities they offer in Logos 4?

The way that Libronix did topic searching was dependent on the chapter and section headings in books. They are working on implementing true topic tagging for Logos 4, it's a big project and only in its infancy. While many people found the old Topic browser to be helpful it was relatively inaccurate  and missed a lot of content (when I was a student I found it's results in research to be woefully inadequate). They are working on a new way of doing things that will be more accurate. Go back into this old thread and read Sean Boisen's post on Wed, Nov 4 2009 3:18 PM, it'll explain this issue more fully.

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 9:30 AM

Kevin Becker:
Go back into this old thread and read Sean Boisen's post on Wed, Nov 4 2009 3:18 PM, it'll explain this issue more fully.
That was a great read.   I missed it on the first go around, so thanks for pointing it out

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3470/27363.aspx#27363

I saved it to my favorites (among other Logos comments) for future reference.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 168
Bill Gordon | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2010 6:53 AM

SamHenderson:

I believe that Logos tagged many of their resources for significant topics and references and that this tagging was time consuming and expensive (which is why not every Logos book featured this type of tagging - usually the higher value ones). I remember them trumpeting how long it had taken them to topic tag the Early Church Fathers collection and why topic tagging made this Logos resource so much more useful than a mere public domain PDF version of the ECF which could only be searched literalistically for a simple word or literal phrase.

And that for me is the difference. Using the Topic Browser in Logos 3 was like going to the index page of a well edited book - you knew it would point you to significant and intelligently selected treatments of the search term/topic and offer you sub-topics to refine your choices. Searching in Logos 4 is more like searching a PDF or using Google - it offers you a series of occurences based on an alpha-numeric match (refined by a few fancy algorithms).

 

It was that extra effort by Logos that made their books worth the extra money we had to pay for them. For example, Logos is selling Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas for $199.95 for a savings of $50.00. Amazon is selling the complete Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas for $0.99 for the Kindle. Both are English only and both are translated by the Fathers of the English Dominican Province. Amazon can sell Summa Theologica so cheaply and included free wireless delivery to the Kindle because the work is in public domain. The only way I can justify paying 200 times more for the Logos version of this work is if Logos provides added value! Added value includes such things as providing the page numbers in the original book, tagging references and topics. Without these added features I cannot justify paying 200 times more for the same public domain work.

Posts 269
Stein Dahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2010 8:32 AM

WilliamEGordonJr:
It was that extra effort by Logos that made their books worth the extra money we had to pay for them. For example, Logos is selling Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas for $199.95 for a savings of $50.00. Amazon is selling the complete Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas for $0.99 for the Kindle. Both are English only and both are translated by the Fathers of the English Dominican Province. Amazon can sell Summa Theologica so cheaply and included free wireless delivery to the Kindle because the work is in public domain. The only way I can justify paying 200 times more for the Logos version of this work is if Logos provides added value! Added value includes such things as providing the page numbers in the original book, tagging references and topics. Without these added features I cannot justify paying 200 times more for the same public domain work.

I have to say that I really do agree with what you're saying.  I mean after all, even e-Sword and The Word provide many public domain resources for nothing at all.  And they are all search-able resources.  So, I also can't justify spending 200 times more - unless - there's something pretty special about the way in which the Logos version of these resources are able to be searched - (i.e.; by topic or subject - not just by word hit count). 

Having the capability to search your entire library, or just a collection - by specific topic - was what I liked also about the Topics Browser in L3, even if it wasn't 100% perfect and accurate.  It sure worked better than having to weed through thousands of word hits that didn't apply.

sdahlinghwa

Posts 269
Stein Dahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2010 10:26 AM

Forgot to formally ask:

I know you guys are working on this but . . .

PLEASE bring back at least the same functionality we had with the Topics Browser in L3.

 

There.  Just had to say it straight out.

 

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2010 10:44 AM

Stein Dahl:

I know you guys are working on this but . . .

PLEASE bring back at least the same functionality we had with the Topics Browser in L3.

 

There.  Just had to say it straight out.

You should read this http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3470/27363.aspx#27363

 

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Posts 18
William Emberley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2010 11:15 AM

You can add my name.

Posts 7
William A. Ebert | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 7:04 PM

I agree with this and really miss the topic search

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