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Posts 287
Gregorio Billikopf | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 22 2011 3:18 PM

Conquer, this has been an interesting thread. I just wanted to say that I prefer the Hebrew script over transliterated script for several reasons. Perhaps the most important for me, is that I find it very difficult to learn the notations for transliterated Hebrew. For instance, I find it extremely frustrating when I read Young’s commentary on Isaiah, and have to try and decipher the transliterated Hebrew. I personally have a huge mental block about the idea of it. The Hebrew alphabet is not that hard to learn (I believe I can teach anyone to read the alphabet in two hours). It is a lot easier than the Cyrillic script, for instance. And both are easier than the multiple notations in the transliterated scripts. Another reason I do not like transliterations, is because one can never quite properly pronounce a large percentage of words in another language when using transliterated text (for instance, those who use transliterated text to learn Spanish are doomed to have just as bad an accent as I do in English). Perhaps you could place the word in Hebrew in parenthesis for those of us who have difficulty with the transliterations. Or the other way around, put the transliteration in parenthesis. George, I do not understand why you are so opposed to interlinear text. I find it really useful for several reasons, even if one may not agree with the definition used by the author of the interlinear. But before I say more, it would be interesting to see why you dislike it. Best, Gregorio

Posts 23
Conquer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 22 2011 4:06 PM

Thanks, Gregorio. All I really wanted to do was see how you transliterate text, not get into a debate about the pros and cons. It's about journal editors' requirements, not my preferences. Of course FOR MYSELF I'd prefer Hebrew every time. No dispute there. But it's an absolute pain to do this in the fonts required by the journals. And also, non-Hebraists would completely lose out, whereas in transliterated script they can at least recognize the same word when it is named again. Personally, I would much prefer a phonetic transliteration in Roman script. So for instance, Shema for 'hear'. OK, you lose the distinction between the two samech and sin, and between tet and tau. Small price to pay, I think, for readability and ease of typing too. The Hebraists will find out the precise spelling anyway, the non-Hebraists can at least pronounce it properly. But as long as I'm not on an editorial board, I have no say in the matter and will have to follow journal guidelines. Whether I like them or not. 

Posts 287
Gregorio Billikopf | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 22 2011 4:13 PM

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Now, even I can read Shema and understand it. I think it gets complicated with the attempts to transliterate so precisely (and that is where it gets more confusing). And I do understand that journal editors have a lot of power Smile indeed! Best luck with your journal article. Gregorio

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 22 2011 4:22 PM

Gregorio Billikopf:
George, I do not understand why you are so opposed to interlinear text. I find it really useful for several reasons, even if one may not agree with the definition used by the author of the interlinear. But before I say more, it would be interesting to see why you dislike it.

 

I do not love thee, Dr Fell,
The reason why I cannot tell;
But this I know, and know full well,
I do not love thee, Dr Fell.

Actually, I can tell you why I do not like interlinears. 

  1. Interlinears hinder the learning of a language.  When one has an English translation immediately before his eyes, it is absolutely impossible to keep one's self from looking at as one is "reading" the original. 
  2. Interlinears inculcate the a limited understanding of the words of the original by tying one's understanding of a particular word to the gloss used in the translation rather than having the reader learn the full spectrum of the meaning of a word by looking at its entry in a lexicon and following up on the ways it is used in various contexts.
  3. It engenders a false sense that one understands the language when what one really understands is the translation with which the original text is paired.
  4. It's downright ugly.
  5. Give me a little time and I'll think of other reasons to add to the above.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 22 2011 4:24 PM

Conquer:
So for instance, Shema for 'hear'.

Actually, Shema can hear just fine.  The problem is that she doesn't listen.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 287
Gregorio Billikopf | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 23 2011 4:23 PM

Hi George, I suppose it is all about how we use any resource. For me it is no different than hovering over a word in Hebrew to see its meaning or to consult various translations to see how others have translated a particular passage. After doing so, I go to some of my favorite Lexicons (in my case, I have a strong affinity for Gesenius, but also consult BDB, HALOT and others). But I do see what you mean. If one is just taking the author's word for it (no pun intended), then it is easy to have the wrong idea. Hey, thanks for helping me with my other problem, the day before yesterday. Your suggestion has been a great time saver! (i.e., on the simple pointed Massoretic text). Best, Gregorio

Posts 1517
Forum MVP
Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 13 2013 7:00 AM

Mark Barnes:

Can I suggest an easier method?

  1. Use the Copy Bible Verses tool to copy Joel to the clipboard.
  2. Paste the text into Logos' microsite, www.transliterate.com
  3. Copy the resulting text back to the clipboard

The resulting text is LtoR instead or RtoL, but I presume you can transform this in Word.

Mark, thank you very much for pointing out this site. This is quite useful.

Posts 1517
Forum MVP
Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 14 2013 3:03 AM

Conquer:

This is very helpful. Problem with the interlinear is that you get the words in English order and sometimes jumbled up too. So it'll be hard work to get it exactly right [as you have to for a publication]. Is there any resource that has a transliteration of the Hebrew text in the Hebrew order? That would be really cool. 

I noticed that the www.transliterate.com website only outputs SBL format, not the Scientific format, so I tried again with the Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear and finally figured out how to copy and paste with left to right text correctly formatted. Here are the steps:

  1. Select Tools – Program Settings
  2. Change the Hebrew Transliteration format to “Scientific”
  3. Open the Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible
  4. Click on the “display” button. Select “Inline”. Select “Manuscript (Transliterated)” and then deselect all the other options except these two. You will then see the Hebrew text transliterated according to the “Scientific” format.
  5. Select the text you want and copy it.
  6. Paste it into Word. Word has multiple ways it can paste a text, and each way will give you different results:
    1. Merge formatting – Will display the transliterated text from left to right (this is the option generally desired)
    2. Keep Source Formatting – Will display the transliterated text from right to left (this is what I see by default, and what others in this thread have mentioned they see)
    3. Keep Text Only – Will display the Hebrew text with Hebrew characters

It works great! Congrats to Logos for allowing so many ways to paste, and for hiding this fantastic feature so well! Smile Maybe one logical way to expose this feature would be to somehow add this option into the "Copy Bible Verses" tool.

Posts 5
G. L. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 24 2013 9:13 PM

I need some help. I saw my friend in class type in a phrase, pressed a button and it came out Hebrew, do we have to have a special keyboard in order to type in Hebrew. I have the Bronze Base Package. He then highlighted a Hebrew phrase pressed that button on Logos it came out English.

Sincerely,

Gerard L. Miller

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 24 2013 9:24 PM

G. L. Miller:

I need some help. I saw my friend in class type in a phrase, pressed a button and it came out Hebrew, do we have to have a special keyboard in order to type in Hebrew. I have the Bronze Base Package. He then highlighted a Hebrew phrase pressed that button on Logos it came out English.

Sincerely,

Gerard L. Miller

I generally change keyboards and type directly in Hebrew, but it is possible to type "h:xxxx" and have it converted to Hebrew.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5
G. L. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2013 5:47 PM

how do I change my keyboard. Thank you in advance

Sincerely,

G.L.Miller

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 26 2013 5:58 PM

G. L. Miller:

how do I change my keyboard. Thank you in advance

Sincerely,

G.L.Miller

A computer or a MAC?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5
G. L. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 28 2013 12:56 AM

Computer Laptop, Qosmio made by Toshiba. Windows 7. Top of the line computer, has everything. Even a Blu-Ray dvd,backlit keyboard, subwoofer

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 28 2013 1:57 AM

G. L. Miller:
how do I change my keyboard

This video and instructions should help: http://www.logos.com/support/logos5/windows/keyboards

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