Forum Guidelines: No Theology Debates

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jun 30 2011 8:30 AM

Please stop the theology wars in Logos forums.

Just stop.

Stop posting about errors in other people's doctrine. Please stop posting your own doctrine. Please stop responding to correct misperceptions or misunderstandings or to counter attacks.

It takes two to have an argument. Please stop being the second party that turns an unkind post into a flame war.

Logos Bible Software is here to serve everyone who studies the Bible. That is intentionally "big tent" and we intentionally do not have a statement of faith or a doctrinal position.

The forums are here to support and discuss Logos Bible Software. There are plenty of forums for gladitorial theological combat; please take those discussions there.

I do not want to moderate the forums. I do not want to pay someone to moderate the forums. I am opposed to deleting or locking threads because it's pointless: the person who must make their voice heard will find other ways to do so. And the person who would respect the shut down doesn't need to be "deleted," only told. And I want to spend our resources on building tools, not hiring hall monitors for the forums.

Big News: Not everyone agrees on theology. Turns out, Catholics and protestants have been disagreeing for quite some time. The arguments have, at times, gotten quite heated, if you could believe that. Turns out, the protestants have their own problems, too. They've been splitting churches on stuff like form of baptism (forward immersion or backwards?), style of worship music (drums in church?), and, amazingly, personal disagreements that sometimes start at covered-dish suppers.

Logos is here for everyone who studies the Bible. Baby sprinklers, backwards immersers, forward triple-dunkers, bacon in the potato salad, lime Jello molds with celery, pastors with robes, churches with candles, vegetarians, and sunrise services on the beach. Heretics, cultists, and atheists included; we'd love for them to study the Bible, too.

To everyone who knows that others are wrong:

Wouldn't it be great if all the people who waste their time and energy on petty things put that time and energy into Bible study? Wouldn't it be great if people who've made horrible theological errors and are leading others astray spent their time in studying the Word? And what is more likely to set the wrong on the path of truth? My badgering and taunting, or time spent studying God's Word?

I'd sure hate to be wasting the time and energy of people of people who, because they've bought Logos Bible Software and are hanging out in its forums, have already shown that they're engaged in that study and pursuit of God's truth.

There are other places where you can seek out and engage people who aren't already studying. Maybe they want to be badgered. Or better yet, you could encourage them to do their own study, too.

One more time, bluntly.

Most of the theology flame wars seem to be protestant/Catholic. Just stop.

Protestants: The Catholics here are the ones engaged in personal Bible study. No matter how much you disagree with Catholic doctrine / church history / whatever, wouldn't these be your favorite Catholics? Please treat them kindly.

Catholics: Logos welcomes you, and we're working hard to provide more tools, resources, and support. We've hired a Catholic product manager and are working hard to serve you. But our customer base is still 95% protestant, and you know that there are some passionate and even out-of-control people in protestant churches, and that the protestants don't do a good job getting along on a single doctrinal statement. That's why the Catholic church is basically one large church, and the average protestant church splits after reaching 100-200 people. I know the attacks are painful and unkind, but please understand that you're "surrounded" by people who traditionally are more likely to split a church than seek unity. In the protestant mindset there isn't a single authority figure who will be respected, let alone able to quell debate and dissension.

Respectfully,

-- Bob

Posts 39
John A. Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 9:37 AM

Well said Bob!  As a Pentecostal with a cousin who is a Catholic Priest, a son-in-law who is a Lutheran pastor, a sister-in-law who is a devoted Catholic, and a now deceased uncle who was a Free-Methodist pastor, I've found that we can agree on far more than we disagree on.  And I've been enriched by peaceful discussions, over the Word, about the areas we disagree on.

I haven't changed my doctrinal stance, but I have enlarged my vision of God's church.  Logos software offers us the opportunity to participate in informed discussions about our differences, away from the forums, while we celebrate our love of Logos in the forums.

John A. Taylor - L5 Portfolio+++ = A Great Library!

"A life in His love and fellowship will make prayer to Him the natural expression of our soul's life." ~ Andrew Murray

Posts 175
Silent Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 10:21 AM

                                                                                Hmm HHHMMMmmm~~~ Hmm

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 11:00 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Please stop the theology wars in Logos forums.

Bob, may I suggest that to this we add: Stop debates about Bible versions.

The vitriol can be similar and the value of the debates equally dubious.

EDIT: I just realized I didn't thank you for this post. Thank you, thank you,thank you!

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 11:09 AM

Richard DeRuiter:

Bob Pritchett:
Please stop the theology wars in Logos forums.

Bob, may I suggest that to this we add: Stop debates about Bible versions.

The vitriol can be similar and the value of the debates equally dubious.

Agreed! Yes

Debates are different than discussions.

Proselytizing and judging should be checked at the door.

edit: If all Bible versions were the same, we would only have one. With dozens to choose from, they can't all be equal. With 2.1 billion potential Bible readers, we will not settle on which is "best."   No debates.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 325
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 12:10 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Please stop the theology wars in Logos forums.

Yes

Posts 767
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 12:15 PM

Thanks Bob,

I hope everyone will take this advice. I thought of jumping into the conversation that spawned this thread but did not because of all the reasons Bob stated. I have strong doctrinal beliefs and I believe I am right. This means I believe many others are wrong HOWEVER, this is not the place to deal with those. This is the place where we can discuss the tool that helps us study the scriptures and that is the best thing anyone can do to find the truth. Please everyone who has participated in that thread STOP! 

 

My prayer is that ALL who contributed repent, think and move forward with our discussions about the best tool around for Bible study.

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 12:22 PM

I appreatiate Bob's intervention but I wish the clarifications had been… clearer.

Bob emphasized theological wars and heated debates. However, the specifics concerning what people should not do appear to preclude any and all theological discussions: “Stop posting about errors in other people's doctrine. Please stop posting your own doctrine. Please stop responding to correct misperceptions or misunderstandings or to counter attacks”. I do not see any theological exchange that would not qualify.

I understand why a company would want to limit theological debates/discussions. When sales and customer satisfaction are concerned, there is little upside and a lot of downside when discussing religion. Offended or marginalized customers are less likely to stay.

However, I found some of the theological rationale (all that should matters is that people are studying God’s Word) to be less convincing and even counterproductive (the reason why individuals engage others theologically in venues such as this one is rarely because the other person does not study the Bible but mainly because of the belief that said person is doing it the wrong way). The solution is not to present theological differences as trivial (some, not all, have eternal consequences) and related discussions as a waste of time (promoting sound doctrine is encouraged by the Bible itself) but to emphasize the fact that by company policy, this website is not the place for such exchanges (plain and simple). Such a rule does not need a somewhat questionable theological rationale and stands on its own.

As a user of this website, I respect Logos’ rules and regulations and as such, I do not participate in activities that are forbidden by the company (even though I like constructive theological discussions as much as the next man). However, even if discussions were allowed, I would still stay out of many of them because of the lack of edification. It is good that Bob decided to step in and calm things down. 

Alain

Posts 3639
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 12:23 PM

YesYes

I am just sorry you needed to write it all.  May God and His Word be praised by all who are here.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 1:15 PM

Thank you, Bob, it needed saying.  I'm an Anglican, albeit a reluctant one.  I worship with the Catholics.  Used to worship with the Evangelical church as well, till they cold-shouldered me for worshipping with the Catholics. Present pastor and family are good friends of mine and very supportive.  I'm just back from a visit to them.  He says "theological problems" are usually an excuse for a personality clash...   I live in a Muslim village, and we do Bible study according approximately to the evangelical model because that's what makes sense to the participants.  We don't use the term Christian, but call ourselves Believers in Jesus.  I use Logos daily for Bible study and Vyrso even more for reading.  Some of my Bible study is done from an old fashioned paper Bible, but I then turn to Logos for commentaries.  

I normally enjoy the forums, but have tended not to open the threads that appear to have a theological/aggressive bias.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 1:29 PM

nicky crane:
I normally enjoy the forums, but have tended not to open the threads that appear to have a theological/aggressive bias.

Could you loan me some of your self-control? Geeked

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 1:58 PM

IT'S NOT self control.  I just find them unattractive.  I've suffered enough from intolerance about my heretical views, whether it's believing the Bible too much, or failing to understand it the way the other person does, that I'm just turned off by theological diatribes, or what appear to me to be diatribes, or over-dogmatic statements .  

 

Posts 59
Westie | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:02 PM

Bob Pritchett:
I know the attacks are painful and unkind, but please understand that you're "surrounded" by people who traditionally are more likely to split a church than seek unity. In the protestant mindset there isn't a single authority figure who will be respected, let alone able to quell debate and dissension.

Bob,

I have spent a great deal of money, and continue to spend money on your software. My daily use of the forum is basically limited to looking at what people say regarding specific resources that I may have overlooked.  I am a partner in a 250 person CPA firm with over 2000 clients.  I can’t imagine speaking to my clients or employees in this manner. 

 

Your statement is extremely offensive.  To make such a sweeping statement is wrong.  There are many protestant / reformed persons like myself that simply scan the forum daily for information.    

 

To be clear… I respect authority figures.  Within the church I submit to the elders, outside the church I submit to all governing authorities, just as the bible commands me to.  I seek unity around the authority of the bible, hence the reason that I have spent so much money on your software, and why I study any chance I get.  Lastly, I have never “split” a church, or caused dissention in a church.

 

Mark

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:10 PM

nicky crane:
 I've suffered enough from intolerance about my heretical views, whether it's believing the Bible too much, or failing to understand it the way the other person does, that I'm just turned off by theological diatribes, or what appear to me to be diatribes, or over-dogmatic statements .  

I like theology.          
                                 I like different tribes.   
                                                                             I like dogs.

It is those automatic cat statements I can't stand.      Woof!

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2733
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:15 PM

Thank you Bob for stepping in and sharing with us all you have said. I am sorry you have to do it but appreciate it even more. Please, keep on with your vision of building a strong Bible Software company for all/any/whoever would take Bible into his/her  hands. I believe it is a God-given mission. God bless you in all you are and you do. Yes

Bohuslav

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:16 PM

Bob,

Understood and I'll do my best; though I might slip here and there.

I'm sorry that (knowing your normal ultra-cool demeanor) that it got to this...and I apologize.

 

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 494
Greg Masone | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:18 PM

Well said.

Can we sticky this post and lock it down so its always visible?

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:18 PM

Users of the software are diverse and many. We come from a wide variety of backgrounds, many denominations, countries etc.. Lets respect each others views, discuss the uses of the software, and how we can help each other benefit from it.

I have been blessed from the posts of many, and am not concerned with their theological leanings. It does not matter, where you worship, or if you worship at all. Just give your input on how to make a great product better, or ask your questions related to the software.

My only concern is how can we make a good product better. Keep posting your suggestions for improvements, resources to be added, and tips on using the software.

Time to get back on track.

Love and peace.

 

Lynden

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:47 PM

Mark:
To be clear… I respect authority figures.  Within the church I submit to the elders, outside the church I submit to all governing authorities, just as the bible commands me to.  I seek unity around the authority of the bible, hence the reason that I have spent so much money on your software, and why I study any chance I get.  Lastly, I have never “split” a church, or caused dissention in a church.

Mark, 

If everyone were like you and respected authority and sought to live peaceably with all men, there would be no dissension. There are around 750,000 Logos users and the overwhelming majority of them are nice people who respect others. Bob's "sweeping statement" is just that, sweeping. He is attempting to clean up a mess. It is a bit silly for a company CEO to have to have to smooth things over because "Christian adults" can not behave.

Obviously Bob's statement is not referring to you or 749,950 of the other Logos users. These forums are for you & them. Law enforcement is only necessary against lawbreakers. If you can be a peacemaker behind the scenes, God bless your efforts.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:51 PM

Matthew C Jones:
God bless your efforts.

I would have liked to have seen Bob use the word 'statistically' instead of 'traditionally.'  Geeked

 

 

 

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