Forum Guidelines: No Theology Debates

Page 17 of 19 (367 items) « First ... < Previous 15 16 17 18 19 Next >
This post has 366 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 116
Chris Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 3:00 PM

You Win ! I Quit ! I have been accused of being a troll, of saying things I didn't say, and being people I have never met. Finally My Christianity was brought into question. It may well be that I don't live up to that name, But I Know enough to realize Who will make that judgment. This debate (or one like it) will linger long after I'm dead. I simply don't have the will to swim upstream anymore. Have it your way. Have a great life. I sincerely apologize for any hard feelings I have contributed to. ...... God Bless.

Posts 10522
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 4:54 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
In more than 30 years of my ministry, large part of it I did in the persecution environment, as part of the underground church movement. Now we try to help Christians who live in less advantageous parts of the world where our brothers and sisters still pay the highest price for being able to study Bible, to participate in the Christian life.

Bohuslav

I truly cannot identify with your past situation, and the present situation of many of our brothers and sisters in Christ. We here in America tend to feel persecuted when someone slams a door in our face or turns their back on us when we attempt to share the Gospel. I often tell those whom I teach that we do not know what persecution really is, and we need to engage in earnest prayer for those who face such difficulties. A few years ago, I picked up "Secret Believers" by Brother Andrew (of God's Smuggler fame). What a heart-wrenching group of stories! We have it so easy here, and it often seduces us into complacency and apathy.

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Just few days ago one of my highly respected friend, key minister in a less privileged country has been kidnapped. We don't know where he is so far.

I will add your friend to my Prayer List.

Blessings, Brother, I look forward to meeting you in Glory.

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 5:10 PM

Paul Oertly:

Per Wictionary:

kiss-up (plural kiss-ups)

[I will not copy the offensive photo you included]

Your post is most inappropriate on a forum discussing Bible study software.

I personally have not and would not use such an offensive term.

Eph 5:4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.

It was totally uncalled for.

Posts 175
Bill Coley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 5:12 PM

Chris Thompson:
You Win ! I Quit ! I have been accused of being a troll, of saying things I didn't say, and being people I have never met. Finally My Christianity was brought into question. It may well be that I don't live up to that name, But I Know enough to realize Who will make that judgment. This debate (or one like it) will linger long after I'm dead. I simply don't have the will to swim upstream anymore. Have it your way. Have a great life. I sincerely apologize for any hard feelings I have contributed to. ...... God Bless.

 

Chris,

Accountability requires truth-telling.

These are your words, offered as a response to a fellow poster here: http://community.logos.com/forums/thread/267147.aspx

“Have a great day. I have better things to do than engage in mental warfare with an unarmed man.”

 

Or, how about the following posts -- again, your words -- offered in the current thread:

“Could it be the only reason Mark is sorry is that he hasn't found a way to get Logos to sell his book? Maybe standing up for Bob might just be what's needed to start the ball rolling? I suggest Bob check out other forums and see what Mark really thinks of him.”

“The price for speaking up is enduring the wrath of "Bob's Vicars".”

 

As I see it, the issue your fellow posters have raised, Chris, has not been about your right to your opinions, or your freedom to disagree with the rhetoric or vision of Logos management, and certainly not about your Christianity. The issue has been about the manner in which you have repeatedly chosen to express yourself.

When you could have said, "I agree that continuing our disagreement will not be a productive use of our time," you instead chose to critique the intelligence of the person with whom you disagreed via the caustic phrase, "an unarmed man."

When you could have chosen to refrain from all judgment about the motives of another Logos user, you instead chose to impute to him greed and disingenuousness.

When you could have said, "My posted disagreements with Logos seems often to meet with fervent opposition from other posters," you instead chose to refer to those other posters as "Bob's vicars."

And when you could have written, "I apologize for the ways my postings have hurt people," you instead chose to lament what I guess you see as your victimization, and then to close with language whose sincerity, in such a context, is almost immediately questioned:

"Have it your way. Have a great life. I sincerely apologize for any hard feelings I have contributed to. ...... God Bless."

 

There is a significant difference between disagreeing and demeaning. Disagreement is about ideas and opinions. Demeaning is about people. No one here protests your disagreements. We protest the demeaning tone and content of your words (you will no doubt recall the post in which you referred to those with whom you disagree as the "cultured elite").

Have others engaged in demeaning posts, perhaps in response to you? Yes. Sadly, demeaning rhetoric is often a perpetual motion machine. Those who demeaned you or anyone else, were wrong and should apologize.... Not excuse their rhetoric. Not cry foul for the posts that prompted their outbursts. They -- we all, and you -- should simply apologize, repent (change), and then move on.

You had your chance to do just that, Chris. You chose not to take it. I hope you will now.

Bill

Posts 77
Paul Oertly | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 6:20 PM

Edwin Bowden:
It was totally uncalled for.

I deleted the post. I would have deleted the others but it appears too much time has passed. On my way out I just cant help but wonder why you could not overlook my post, but you were not offended by this exchange.

 

Robert Pavich:

Halo Hound:
Whatever name you need to call me in light of that, please feel free.

Evil-halo-hound-from-Hell.

 

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 6:33 PM

Paul Oertly:

 

Edwin Bowden:
It was totally uncalled for.

 

I deleted the post. I would have deleted the others but it appears too much time has passed. On my way out I just cant help but wonder why you could not overlook my post, but you were not offended by this exchange.

 

Robert Pavich:

Halo Hound:
Whatever name you need to call me in light of that, please feel free.

Evil-halo-hound-from-Hell.

 

That was simply a joke between two friends.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 6:50 PM

Jack Caviness:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Just few days ago one of my highly respected friend, key minister in a less privileged country has been kidnapped. We don't know where he is so far.

I will add your friend to my Prayer List.

Blessings, Brother, I look forward to meeting you in Glory.

Praying God be glorified, including the lives of kidnappers and their families plus minister friend.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 386
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 10:57 PM

Chris Thompson:

...The other thing is that we don't see eye to eye about constructive criticism. Whenever someone brings up an issue they feel needs attention, There is an element of the forums that gets their feathers ruffled. They think it crosses a line, and the person objecting is not a Christian. That group piles on the protester. They feel they need to defend Bob's honor. Why not let him speak for himself?

My heart goes out to you and your friend...everyone that situation affects. I have always hated injustice...wherever I see it. This whole conversation began over what I considered to be injustice. I stood up for what I believe. (as you say you have often done) The price for speaking up is enduring the wrath of "Bob's Vicars". Bob has long ago apologized, but the debate has now evolved into the question of whether or not one has the right to speak  his mind. I believe they do. I will continue to speak when I feel the need. But for today, I will digress and let someone else have the floor. ...God Bless

 

I will stand by and defend the word I used -"kiss up,"  which is defined very well in Chris's post above:

"There is an element of the forums that gets their feathers ruffled. They think it crosses a line, and the person objecting is not a Christian. That group piles on the protester. They feel they need to defend Bob's honor. Why not let him speak for himself?"  

The remaining part of the definition for "kiss up" would be one who tries to flatter a superior, owner, president, etc. in order to get special attention.  

I take no shame nor have any regrets for speaking the truth.  

This forum has plenty of people who are gracious, and amazing at helping people   This does not enter into this particular post neither.  This thread is talking about "Forum Guidelines" and having a rule that says "NO KISS UPS" is totally relevant.  

Righteous opposition is an amazing healthy thing.... HONOR THIS!  We don't need politically correct Christians who are afraid to offend.  The Gospel is an offensive thing.  The world nailed Jesus to a tree for what he said and did.  

This post should not have turned into a persecuted Christian thread either... This has nothing to do with the thread and this should be discussed elsewear in another post.  But, I am sure this comment will not be well received either.

 

I also stand by this :  “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God” (Matthew 5:9)

 Passivity is not the answer; activity is. “Peacemaking” is an action word, implying that the Christian is to make peace. There are many Christian who love and want peace and few who are willing to work for it.  Peace does not mean give in or give up or simply agree.

James says that evil desires within are the source of conflict (James 4:1-2). People are at war with other people because they are not at peace with themselves, and they are not at peace with themselves because they are at WAR with God.

Make peace with God and you will be at peace with yourself!

 

 

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2011 11:12 PM

Jack Caviness:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Just few days ago one of my highly respected friend, key minister in a less privileged country has been kidnapped. We don't know where he is so far.

I will add your friend to my Prayer List.

Blessings, Brother, I look forward to meeting you in Glory.

Our prayers are with this minister too.  Isaiah 52:7

As Jack says, It will be a pleasure to finally meet all the friends from the forum in Glory.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 6
Jerry Godfrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 7:08 AM

Only 2 things in response;

14 Do everything without grumbling or arguing, 15 so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.” u Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky 16 as you hold firmly to the word of life. 

 

The New International Version. 2011 (Php 2:14–16). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 

 

The New International Version. 2011 (1 Co 13:4–7). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

Posts 59
greypilgrim | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 11:26 AM

For those who think that they need to "weed" out incorrect theology, please read Matthew 13:24-30, I agree Bob, Logos is for everyone,

 

PS I saw your listing on Google+, when are you going to start posting there

John H Pavelko

Crossroads Presbyterian Church

Walled Lake MI

Posts 2
Jolly Troll | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 12:13 PM

Protestants:  Our customer base is still 95% protestant, and we are targeting a 5% Catholic group.  You know that there are some Catholics passionate about the truth of scripture.  In past history they were so passionate they burned people at the stake, who did not bow to the Pope and authority of the Roman Catholic Church.  They stole land, impronsoned and tortured countless people for their zeal for God.  Some of these Catholics are out-of-control people and are not good with getting along with others who do not worship the Pope  That's why the Catholic church is basically one large church that claims all protestants are outside of Orthodox Christianity.  While there are some  protestant church splits due to doctrinal issues that need to be addressed, the Catholic Church has unified around false doctrines and will defend those false doctrines vehemntly.  Protestants, I know the attacks historically have been painful and unkind coming from the Roman Cathlolic Church,  but please understand that you're "surrounded" by people who traditionally are more likely to burn you at the stake, issue a Papal Bull, or call down an anathama on those who do not bow to Roman Catholocism. In the Catholic mindset there is a single authority figure alone who is to be respected as the Mediator between God and man, the Pope. 

 

I wonder how the forum would have went if Bob attacked the catholics as he did the protestants.   And he is the president of Logos??????????

Posts 2
Jolly Troll | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 12:20 PM

If Logos was serious about this Bob would remove his initial attack and slander against Protestant Christians and close this forum.  But the fact remains that he seems to want this to go further since he has not removed the post.  When you stab someone in the back and then apologize, it really is not taken to seriously when you refuse to pull the knife out of the persons back after you apologize.Big Smile

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 12:39 PM

Jolly Troll:

If Logos was serious ...Big Smile

Doesn't the screen name say it all (combined with the low post count)?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 1:08 PM

"Forum Guidelines:  No Theology Debates"

Some people just don't like that word NO, do they?  Which proves the old adage; age is NOT a number. Geeked

 

 

 

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 1:38 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Keith Larson:
Your characterization of Protestants was very unfair.

See, this is why I hate these arguments... I'm in over my head. :-)

I've heard a few people (here, and on blogs) saying I've "thrown protestants under the bus" or gone "anti-protestant." That certainly wasn't my intention at all, and I apologize if I was somehow unfair to protestants, among whom I number myself.

This is a case of writing too quickly and posting without enough thought, in the heat of the moment. I wasn't trying to make any bold statements about Catholics and protestants; I actually thought I was making a mildly clever point in response to calls for someone to "step in and settle things," by pointing out that protestant churches don't have the hierarchy of the Catholic church. When protestants disagree on doctrine, they rarely kick the issue upstairs for an authoritative answer from the church hierarchy; they just split the church. I was trying to make the point that it was harder to get people so inclined to ever "settle down and get along" when they believe they are arguing a theologically important point. I thought that the request for someone to "set the rules" reflected a perspective that might be informed by experience in a more hierarchial church structure.

This was obviously too subtle a point and too gross a simplification, and probably too informed by my own experience in small non-denominational churches, all too many of which seem so split over trivial stuff.

Even my use of split wasn't a reference to departing "away from the true church." I meant splitting as in Tom, Mary, and their small group are leaving to start a new church down the street where we will use harmonicas during worship....

I apologize for the confusion, and for my flippancy. I plead jet-lag (last week) and too many simultaneous fires.

-- Bob

Bob, I think it would be helpful if you added an "EDIT" to your opening post with the words of the post quoted above.

And I frankly have little idea about the controversial threads which brought all this about. Whenever I see a "train wreck" about to happen, I go to a more helpful thread.

 

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 26277
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 4:32 PM

Jolly Troll:
In the Catholic mindset there is a single authority figure alone who is to be respected as the Mediator between God and man, the Pope.

I would suggest that you read The Grace of Everyday Saints: How a Band of Believers Lost Their Church and Found Their Faith by Julian Guthrie. If you have any interest in how Catholics actually respond to the hierarchy which is considerably different from what you suggest.

To those who say not responding to this thread is the wisest action, I say that I've just proved that I am not wise and that I've really wanted to have the opportunity to recommend Guthrie's book as a book that shows the Church as highly flawed but would help many to understand that Italian law is very different than English law - we argue when it doesn't make sense to obey.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 386
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 5:53 PM

Jolly Troll:

If Logos was serious about this Bob would remove his initial attack and slander against Protestant Christians and close this forum.  But the fact remains that he seems to want this to go further since he has not removed the post.  When you stab someone in the back and then apologize, it really is not taken to seriously when you refuse to pull the knife out of the persons back after you apologize.Big Smile

This poster should be ignored, at best this posters intent appears to only try and fan the flames.  I for one stand up for all righteous opposition, but this does not represent righteous opposition.  Poster if you have the boldness to post such harshness, you should be bold enough to use your real name, or fill out a Bio, and certainly not use a username that represents mockery.  This post does nothing to solve anything, and only causes further separation.  Bob has apologized and I for one think he was sincere.

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 12 2011 9:57 PM

Well said, and true, MJD.  Could not have said it better, so I will say "Amen!"

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 175
Silent Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 9:17 AM

MJ. Smith:
To those who say not responding to this thread is the wisest action, I say that I've just proved that I am not wise

                                                                                Hmm HHHMMMmmm~~~ Hmm

Page 17 of 19 (367 items) « First ... < Previous 15 16 17 18 19 Next > | RSS