Works of Alexander Campbell, Barton W. Stone (restoration preachers)

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 9:57 PM

Are they originated from the Brethren's movement?

By the way, without love, it is meaningless to be "merged" and maintain the oneness. Sometimes people think too ideally (and "Spiritually") that they need to maintain the oneness so they use some "brute force" to do it artificially. And the main point is that the oneness in the early churches cannot be recovered artificially (which is fleshly, opposite to spiritually). "truthing it in love" is so true. Sometimes when we see a truth, and we want to practice it, but without true love.

Luckily, I am obviously not a church leader and probably not going to be. So I can enjoy the oneness without turning it into a doctrine or a denomination.

By the way, I think that in the Logos' forum, actually we are practicing this oneness. Well, might be some of us "has a denomination", but they are not (at least for most of us) using an identity of a member of a certain denomination to come here. We are here because we have one thing in common - the logos (I mean the Greek).

P.S. might be my English will be a little bit strange to you. I am not a native.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 10:32 PM

Calvin Habig:

That's interesting MJ.  As one who has studied & specialised in Restoration History for decades, that is a stream of which I have never heard.  I don't remember it ever being mentioned in any of the major histories.  Any documentation?

Calvin, I have run across some of these same Mennonite folk (with strong ties to the RM) here in Oklahoma. They do have a distinctly German background and originated in the North-East United States. I agree there isn't much in the history books on them but check through old issues of Christian Standard or The Lookout. magazines. I will ask some of the "old timers" around here to see if they can point to more resources. Back in the camp meeting days they were more concerned with fellowship & preaching than historical documentation. There are also some local "Brethren" congregations that are very similar to Christian Church/Churches of Christ in doctrine & practice.

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 12:33 AM

Matthew C Jones:
There are also some local "Brethren" congregations that are very similar to Christian Church/Churches of Christ in doctrine & practice.

I think the "brethren" are earlier, right?

And may I ask sth about the "Churches of Christ"? I heard that someone said that they are heresy. I understand that the topic can be sensitive. So, if possible, please give me some references to look at it.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 12:53 AM

Kolen Cheung:
And may I ask sth about the "Churches of Christ"? I heard that someone said that they are heresy. I understand that the topic can be sensitive. So, if possible, please give me some references to look at it.

For topics that are relevant to Logos, I recommend http://johnmarkhicks.wordpress.com/.

But I warn you, this is the recommendation of a Roman Catholic with a Church of Christ minister grandfather. His mother was Irish Catholic and his wife Finnish Lutheran. And that's just my Dad's side. On Mother's side we got thrown out of the Boston colony and jailed as a Salem witch. Somehow there are a number of beliefs held by a number of people and churches that I consider (a) silly (b) dangerous (c) irrelevant and/or (d) heresy. Fortunately, I generally have better sense than to tell others which I think apply.Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 1:21 AM

wow. it is lengthy. Thanks.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 2:01 AM

Kolen Cheung:
And may I ask sth about the "Churches of Christ"? I heard that someone said that they are heresy.

 

The Churches of Christ (COC) are not "heresy."  They have their own set of problems (as all churches do).  Some in that stream have had to deal with serious charges of being either ultra-legalistic or overly authoritarian (and their attendant problems). 

 

Back to the non-denominational denomination: my issue has not been with having  our own "Bible Colleges" etc.  Carl has spoken well about that.  My own "wink wink nudge nudge" (if you know Monty Python) about that phrase is the sometimes exclusivist way of some of the people and leaders.  Our "brotherhood" and "the Restoration Movement" becomes a clearly drawn, bounded set, either you are in or out, kind of . . . denomination.

That said, i am one of them (and MJ, I still quibble with the flow chart you drew with the RM being the "end of the line" and disconnected from other streams.  Some hardliners in the RM clearly have taught that, but many (most?) do not think that.  I certainly don't. I rather do think of "us" as within an over all heritage, influenced by many who have gone before us. And personally, I find I am intrigued by the ways of those "before and beside" us: Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, Mennonite, the Vineyard, etc etc.).  I see both the good and the bad in my tradition, as well as that of others.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 2:03 AM

Kolen Cheung:
By the way, without love, it is meaningless to be "merged" and maintain the oneness.

 

Right on, bro!

 

That is where many go wrong.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 2:09 AM

MJ. Smith:
My first guess would be that it was on the website of the Illinois (or is it Indiana) website of the library collection of early Church of Christ hymnals.

My guess is you are referring to this site:

http://www.lincolnchristian.edu/library/hymnals/index.html

 

 (which is currently offline, lol).

Prof. Enos Dowling (deceased) put this together in a labor of love.  He was a unique individual, always singing loudly as he walked to and fro across campus, before secluding himself in the upper recesses of his work area of the library to do his researching and collecting.

 

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 149
David A. Peterson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 4:01 AM

Dan DeVilder:
Prof. Enos Dowling

 I have his "The Restoration Movement," which is included in the book The Church: A Trilogy.  

I wonder if College Press would allow us to place the "Old Green Textbooks" in either Logos or PBB format, as they offer the entire collection as free downloads. 

In Christ,

Dave

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 6:24 AM

David A. Peterson:

Dan DeVilder:
Prof. Enos Dowling

 I have his "The Restoration Movement," which is included in the book The Church: A Trilogy.  

I wonder if College Press would allow us to place the "Old Green Textbooks" in either Logos or PBB format, as they offer the entire collection as free downloads. 

In Christ,

Dave

I have just emailed them (yesterday) for the third time, asking them about the green commentaries, as well as Cottrell's "God" series.  No response so far.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 273
Brad Fry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 6:46 AM

Here are some from a Restoration perspective that are available:

 

“The Church of Christ” by Everett Ferguson

 

“The Faith Once For All: Bible Doctrine for Today” by Jack Cottrell

 

“Old Testament Survey Series” by James E. Smith

 

Several other works by College Press.

Posts 149
David A. Peterson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 7:01 AM

Brad Fry:
Several other works by College Press

The College Press NIV Commentary Series is a tremendous asset for papers that require more recent sources than the Green Textbooks.

DP

<><

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 7:19 AM

Dan DeVilder:
I have just emailed them (yesterday) for the third time, asking them about the green commentaries, as well as Cottrell's "God" series.  No response so far.

 

The "Green Commentaries"  were called " The Bible Study Textbook Series" and were intended as introductory survey material for Bible college students. They serve that purpose well. The NIV Commentary is intended for more exegetical study and for use by in-service pastors.

The "What The Bible Says About..." series was initially offered buy subscription in maroon hardbacks and is out of print. Some more popular titles have been reprinted in paperback, including some by Jack Cottrell..

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 7:31 AM

Matthew C Jones:

Dan DeVilder:
I have just emailed them (yesterday) for the third time, asking them about the green commentaries, as well as Cottrell's "God" series.  No response so far.

 

The "Green Commentaries"  were called " The Bible Study Textbook Series" and were intended as introductory survey material for Bible college students. They serve that purpose well. The NIV Commentary is intended for more exegetical study and for use by in-service pastors.

The "What The Bible Says About..." series was initially offered buy subscription in maroon hardbacks and is out of print. Some more popular titles have been reprinted in paperback, including some by Jack Cottrell..

You know your stuff, sir!  Actually, I meant I asked them about the possibility of them getting into Logos.  :)

 

Some of the "Bible Study Textbooks" seem more than mere introductory material, though not all.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 7:43 AM

Personally, I have not found a lot of the green series that valuable.  But some I rather like and find very well done (even if not the most recent works.  "Recent" doesn't always parlay into good.  And "older" does not mean "irrelevant." )

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 455
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 7:49 AM

Cal,

I was talking to some of my Mennonite friends here and one guy said told me they had ties to the Restoration movement. I was "dismissive" with a "yeah, I hear that a lot, it was/is a very powerful movement that has affected a lot of churches." I guess I have to go back and ask more questions now, and enjoy a good serving of humble pie or crow. Embarrassed

all about Christ,

David

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 8:44 AM

Dan DeVilder:
But some I rather like and find very well done (even if not the most recent works.  "Recent" doesn't always parlay into good.  And "older" does not mean "irrelevant." )

I have them in PDF and would love to have them in my Logos library. I find the outlines very well done, the maps clear and accurate and several of the texts are comprehensive. I'm not "dissing" them at all!  

....And you are so right; "older does not mean irrelevant"    ...Give me College Press, Banner of Truth, and half a dozen other publishers from 100 years ago and I will be happyGeeked

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Posts 420
Calvin Habig | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 9:29 AM

David:

Without doing ANY research at all, I wonder if it is semantics.  The Church of God (Anderson, IN) call themselves a/the "Restoration Movement."  I can see the Mennonites (or specific branches of Mennonites) calling themselves "Mennonites".  The term Restoration Movement is not unique to the Stone-Campbell movement, which is why more and more people have begun to call it the Stone-Campbell movement rather than the RM.  "Restoration" is an entire method of biblical interpretation that crosses a number of denominational streams.

Part of the difficulty (and I say this as one from within the movement) is the question of whether there is actually ONE model of church found in the New Testament. If so, then it may be a fair endeavor to "restore" that.  If not...then not so much. That is what most Restoration movements advocate.And even if there was, are there parts of it that are cultural and no longer applicable? Much more difficult question.

There is also the aspect of restoring the Gospel.  That would be trying to strip the Gospel of Christ away from all of the attendant human theologies and creeds that humans have added to it through the centuries and which were particularly rabid and unhelpful in the 19th century.  That is another animal altogether (and in my view perhaps more productive, but also more dangerous). 

I've rambled enough...I am foolish to get started. I don't always know where to stop!!

Posts 420
Calvin Habig | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 9:39 AM

For what it's worth, the "Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement" has no entries either in the main text or in the index for "Mennonite". 

If you accept Wikipedia as authoritative (many don't...and I look at it with a skewed eye) they have an article on "Restorationism" or primitivism that seems to lay out the distinctions between the various restoration groups.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 26 2010 10:40 AM

Calvin Habig:
the "Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement"

 

I would like that in Logos.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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