I feel a little misled

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This post has 184 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 9:47 AM

Philip Spitzer:
And his name shall be called George the blunt.

He's on the list of people that I'll never forget.... Tongue Tied

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1476
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 9:52 AM

Interesting discussion...

I've used Logos for years to do my Bible research and prepare lessons and sermons, but I honestly did not know you could print from Logos 3...  I always copy information to Word, format and work on it, and print from Word.

My two cents.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 9:54 AM

Philip Spitzer:
And his name shall be called George the blunt.
Nah, George is a sharp guy.  Just very direct.  

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 9:57 AM

Thomas Black:
Just very direct.  

Smile Are you sure you didn't mean derelict?

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:03 AM

Philip Spitzer:
Are you sure you didn't mean derelict?

Wow, Philip, you taught me a new English word. I will use it now every day Big Smile

Bohuslav

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:05 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Wow, Philip, you taught me a new English word. I will use it now every day Big Smile

shhhh....Don't tell anyone, but I had to use word to figure out the spelling :-)

Posts 45
Clifford L. Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:24 AM

I too have been and am a loyal customer.  I go all the way back to the CD Word from Dallas Theo. Sem.  Every time Logos has introduced new versions, I have eagerly upgraded.  So too did I with L4.  I spoke with people at Logos before purchasing to make sure that it would work on my VMware Fusion partition on my MAC.  They assured me that it would. (At that point in the discussion, they should have said, but you're going to need a whole lot of hard drive space for this massive program.  It is now 13 hours later and I'm still not up and running (Yes, I spoke with two very nice Tech Ser people today).  I really believe that a significant amount of additional information should be supplied to customers when they purchase the product.  For instance the customers should be told:

1. Due to the word for word indexing feature of L4, please plan on allocating double the hard drive space that the resources of the program require. 

(in my case, I purchased and upgraded from Gold to Platinum.  When I started loading the program it suggested that I needed 11 GB of space.  What I was later told was that because I am such a good customer (my editorial) and have a whole lot of additional resources above my gold package, that L4 merges the platinum package with pre-existing resources [now that's good].  What is a problem is that the indexing function then doubles the space needed as it indexes word for word what you have.  I use my computer for everything.  Knowing that I need 34 gigs of additional space instead of 17 gigs is something I would think I'd be told upfront. 

2. Please note that unlike earlier versions, L4 will not allow you to customize your library.

(This is for me a fairly significant disappointment.  While I was eager to have access to additional resources, there are some things that I don't want to have on my Hard Drive.  Being forced to include them is not good in my view.  But at least I should be told so I can make accommodations.

3. Please note that depending on the speed of your Internet connection, the installation process may take 12 - 14 hours.  

(I'm not being funny here.  When you have a history with a product, you kind of know what to expect.  When I called Logos and was put on hold the animated voice said, if you start Logos 4 and the library page looks blank don't panic, it can take a long time for the program to index your resources.  I think that some statement like that should be included on the page of the email that one receives after purchasing the product.

I'm nervous about the automated updates, etc.  Again, for those who have to manage resources I'd be concerned about things being added to my program that I may not want or that may take me over my limit.  Having discretion for those decisions is something we should be given in my opinion.  Nevertheless, I'm still a devoted customer and fan of Logos.     The TechnoRev

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:29 AM

CliffordLFrazier:
1. Due to the word for word indexing feature of L4, please plan on allocating double the hard drive space that the resources of the program require. 

Hiding resources does remove them completely from your library. Tools>Program Settings>Scroll to the bottom "Hidden resources" Section

Posts 5616
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:32 AM

CliffordLFrazier:

2. Please note that unlike earlier versions, L4 will not allow you to customize your library.

(This is for me a fairly significant disappointment.  While I was eager to have access to additional resources, there are some things that I don't want to have on my Hard Drive.  Being forced to include them is not good in my view.  But at least I should be told so I can make accommodations.

Actually you can hide resources, which does remove the file from your hard drive.  Open up the Program Settings and scroll down to the Hidden Resources section and expand it.  Then you can drag books from the library to this section and they will be removed on program restart.   Yes it's tedious, but it works (I have ~600 resources hidden).

 

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:35 AM

Todd Phillips:
which does remove the file from your hard drive.

i am guessing if you want them back later, that you can drag them from Hidden Resources. Right ?

 

QLinks, Bibl2, LLR, Macros
Dell Insp 17-5748, i5, 1.7 GHz, 8G RAM, win 8.1

Posts 5573
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:36 AM

CliffordLFrazier:
What is a problem is that the indexing function then doubles the space needed as it indexes word for word what you have. 

I've not seen this before. How do you arrive at this conclusion (not challenging here, just wanting to understand).

CliffordLFrazier:

2. Please note that unlike earlier versions, L4 will not allow you to customize your library.

(This is for me a fairly significant disappointment.  While I was eager to have access to additional resources, there are some things that I don't want to have on my Hard Drive.  Being forced to include them is not good in my view.  But at least I should be told so I can make accommodations.

At this point in L4 development, you will have to download everything once. After that you can hide a resource and it won't update or download again. Further downloads will be automatic, though there are some significantly good reasons for this. L4 and L4 resources are integrally related. Changes to the program will sometimes require changes to resources. By pushing these changes together Logos hopes to avoid situations where users break the program by mismatching old and new, then calling tech support for help. This diminished 'granularity' is designed to save Logos $millions in tech support over the next few years.

CliffordLFrazier:
spoke with people at Logos before purchasing to make sure that it would work on my VMware Fusion partition on my MAC.  They assured me that it would.

Hate to say this, but L4 is known to have lag issues for some using it through VMware. You may or may not experience this. Check with other Mac users in one of the Mac forums for their opinion. Logos does know this and is working on it. In the meantime L4 is usable, but can lag at times.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 5616
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:37 AM

steveclark:

Todd Phillips:
which does remove the file from your hard drive.

i am guessing if you want them back later, that you can drag them from Hidden Resources. Right ?

 

Yep.  Actually you can just delete them from the hidden list, and they will be re-downloaded.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:40 AM

steveclark:
i am guessing if you want them back later, that you can drag them from Hidden Resources. Right ?

Right.

CAUTION: If the resource was updated between the time of hiding it and un-hiding it, you may need to let L4 download the newer version before using it, or be prepared for L4 to freeze, stagger, or crash. Resources and the engine are more closely tied together in L4 than L3, and are still somewhat of a moving target. Expect frequent updates for the next few months.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:41 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
I've not seen this before. How do you arrive at this conclusion (not challenging here, just wanting to understand).

I think what he means is that you have one file on your computer that is the actual resource, .logos4, file. Then you have it adding to an index (multi-gig index) since the index is basically another copy of the resource sorted differently.

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:44 AM

Philip Spitzer:
I think what he means is that you have one file on your computer that is the actual resource, .logos4, file. Then you have it adding to an index (multi-gig index) since the index is basically another copy of the resource sorted differently.

Okay, but my index is only about 20% the size of my resource directory. I don't doubt that the indexer requires some wiggle room, but I've not seen anything that says it needs 2X the space of the resource directory. (Though it's never been a good idea to have less than 25% of your hard drive space free.)

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 10:49 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
Okay, but my index is only about 20% the size of my resource directory. I don't doubt that the indexer requires some wiggle room, but I've not seen anything that says it needs 2X the space of the resource directory. (Though it's never been a good idea to have less than 25% of your hard drive space free.)

I took his statement to mean that overall you need about twice the amount of space when you have both a resource file and an index file as you would if it were an either/or scenario.

Posts 726
Chris Elford | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 11:00 AM

I've never printed from Logos, either. But, it is obviously important to those that do. In the same way that effective/accessible syntax searches are to those that do. A small porportion, but not unimportant. What we all need to do is not just whine but ask for a feature and explain what we would like it to be like. What to print, what kinds of control over printing, etc.

Chris

Posts 2753
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 11:04 AM

Todd Phillips:

Yes it's tedious, but it works (I have ~600 resources hidden). 

so that leave you with a couple of bibles and not much else....

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 5616
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 11:10 AM

DominicM:

Todd Phillips:

Yes it's tedious, but it works (I have ~600 resources hidden). 

so that leave you with a couple of bibles and not much else....

Just the Louis Segond French Bible and a Coptic dictionary.  It's amazing what you learn when you limit yourself.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 2809
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2009 11:10 AM

Thomas Black:

Philip Spitzer:
And his name shall be called George the blunt.
Nah, George is a sharp guy.  Just very direct.  

Would you rather he be obfuscating?

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