Nelson's New Bible Dictionary

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Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jul 13 2011 7:56 AM

Just downloaded Nelson's New Bible dictionary. Is it missing maps and maps index? The preface to the resource makes this statement, yet I cannot find the map index or the maps.

 

Finally, a selection of full-color maps from major periods of biblical history appear at the end of the book. A handy index preceding these maps helps the reader locate sites of specific cities, rivers, mountains, and nations in biblical times. Articles within the Dictionary referencing selected sites also refer the reader to the actual grid coordinates for these respective places on the maps. 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 9:09 AM

Larry Good:
Is it missing maps and maps index?

Yes. Biblical Places has a pretty good set of maps, so perhaps Logos decided not to duplicate what was there. I certainly don't know the actual reason.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 15
Joseph Najera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 2:36 PM

This is a question I would like to have answered as well.  Refer to this post for more on missing graphics: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/35521.aspx

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 2:54 PM

Have you checked under media? I don't have this particular resource but:

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Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 5:58 PM

Mark Smith:

Yes. Biblical Places has a pretty good set of maps, so perhaps Logos decided not to duplicate what was there. I certainly don't know the actual reason.

Well, that is pretty lame reasoning, in my opinion.  When I buy a book, I expect that I have bought the whole book unless I am told that it is abridged.  I would prefer to make my own decisions about which parts of the book I don't need. 

I love Logos, but they are deceptive in their marketing at times.  But no need for that discussion again.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 6:04 PM

M.J.

I checked the media collection and there was no entry for images from the Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Thanks for the idea though -

 

 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 6:47 PM

Michael Childs:
Well, that is pretty lame reasoning, in my opinion.  When I buy a book, I expect that I have bought the whole book unless I am told that it is abridged.  I would prefer to make my own decisions about which parts of the book I don't need. 

Well as I've said before that should be pointed out on the resources info page on the web site. Before you buy you should know if and how the resource is different from the print edition.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 492
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 7:05 PM

Mark,

How is that going to work? I should know? The product labling as delivered by Logos is incorrect  I purchased the product where in the info panel as it is displayed in the Logos Product it states expicitly that there are map indexes and maps? Yet they are not there -

 

See attached screen shot

 

 

Posts 71
Brian Huddleston | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 7:26 PM

All of the map links in the New Illustrated Bible Dictionary in my copy point to Nelson's Bible Map Collection.  It probably should be included in any purchase since the description mentions the maps. I've highlighted the C-1 region of Map 2 in the Map Collection resource, it definitely should be integrated or included based on the description of the resource.

Wylie, TX

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 7:46 PM

Larry Good:

How is that going to work? I should know? The product labling as delivered by Logos is incorrect  I purchased the product where in the info panel as it is displayed in the Logos Product it states expicitly that there are map indexes and maps? Yet they are not there -

Larry - 

I could be wrong, but I think that Mark was stating what SHOULD be, rather than what is the case now. When he said "you should know," I think he was trying to say "when a person makes a resource purchase, Logos should make clear what the contents of that resource include." At least that is how I read his remarks.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 7:51 PM

Larry Good:

Yet they are not there -

See attached screen shot

Larry, not to argue, but the description you posted (which is the same as I have in my copy and is the same as the information on the Logos web site) says nothing about an index or back of the book maps. It promises in-text maps, which it delivers.

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but the original question was about a difference between the print version and the electronic version that was not made clear in the information on the Logos web site. The confusion was compounded by the fact that a reference to the maps and index were not edited out of the dictionary's Preface. Since I don't have the print version I can neither dispute nor verify the reported difference. I cannot verify whether or not the maps Brian pointed out are the same as in the print copy of the dictionary. I did read the preface and it is true that a set of maps and an index in the back of the dictionary are mentioned as being included.

My point is that when a Logos version of a resource does not include something that the print edition does, it is proper for that piece of information to be given in the item description on the Logos web site.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 7:52 PM

alabama24:

Larry - 

I could be wrong, but I think that Mark was stating what SHOULD be, rather than what is the case now. When he said "you should know," I think he was trying to say "when a person makes a resource purchase, Logos should make clear what the contents of that resource include." At least that is how I read his remarks.

Thank you, alabama. That is what I meant to convey.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 492
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 8:12 PM

Here is what is in the text of the resource itself, right up front -

Look, all I am trying to say without a team of lawyers is this - It's not obvious by the method I purchased the product that these resources are missing. It was part of a bundle which further obfuscates the issue and it is not transparent. You have to actually open the resource to determine the content after purchase.

Not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill it is just counter intuitive when you purchase a book unless it otherwise states that certain items have been abridged then why would you assume otherwise. This is being sold as a "Dictionary" after all.

This is pulled right out of the text of the electronic resource:

Finally, a selection of full-color maps from major periods of biblical history appear at the end of the book. A handy index preceding these maps helps the reader locate sites of specific cities, rivers, mountains, and nations in biblical times. Articles within the Dictionary referencing selected sites also refer the reader to the actual grid coordinates for these respective places on the maps. 

 

 

 

Posts 492
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 8:14 PM

Mark Smith:

alabama24:

Larry - 

I could be wrong, but I think that Mark was stating what SHOULD be, rather than what is the case now. When he said "you should know," I think he was trying to say "when a person makes a resource purchase, Logos should make clear what the contents of that resource include." At least that is how I read his remarks.

Thank you, alabama. That is what I meant to convey.

Peace - Email and forum posting is so tricky when it comes to nuance. Maybe a logos tool to do grammatical analysis :)

Posts 492
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 8:16 PM

Mark Smith:

Larry Good:

Yet they are not there -

See attached screen shot

Larry, not to argue, but the description you posted (which is the same as I have in my copy and is the same as the information on the Logos web site) says nothing about an index or back of the book maps. It promises in-text maps, which it delivers.

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but the original question was about a difference between the print version and the electronic version that was not made clear in the information on the Logos web site. The confusion was compounded by the fact that a reference to the maps and index were not edited out of the dictionary's Preface. Since I don't have the print version I can neither dispute nor verify the reported difference. I cannot verify whether or not the maps Brian pointed out are the same as in the print copy of the dictionary. I did read the preface and it is true that a set of maps and an index in the back of the dictionary are mentioned as being included.

My point is that when a Logos version of a resource does not include something that the print edition does, it is proper for that piece of information to be given in the item description on the Logos web site.

We are on the same page now - I agree - Anyway it's all good, the tools are amazing to say the least

Posts 492
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 8:22 PM

Brian Huddleston:

All of the map links in the New Illustrated Bible Dictionary in my copy point to Nelson's Bible Map Collection.  It probably should be included in any purchase since the description mentions the maps. I've highlighted the C-1 region of Map 2 in the Map Collection resource, it definitely should be integrated or included based on the description of the resource.

Cool !

That is the clue I needed - There are two resources available for purchase the Nelson's Bible Map Collection and  Nelson's Complete Book of Bible Maps and Charts Revised. I wonder if both of the index correctly to this dictionary resource. I'm going to guess it is the Basic not theRevised.


Posts 492
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2011 8:22 PM

Brian Huddleston:

All of the map links in the New Illustrated Bible Dictionary in my copy point to Nelson's Bible Map Collection.  It probably should be included in any purchase since the description mentions the maps. I've highlighted the C-1 region of Map 2 in the Map Collection resource, it definitely should be integrated or included based on the description of the resource.

Cool !

That is the clue I needed - There are two resources available for purchase the Nelson's Bible Map Collection and  Nelson's Complete Book of Bible Maps and Charts Revised. I wonder if both of the index correctly to this dictionary resource. I'm going to guess it is the Basic not the Revised.


Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 14 2011 1:31 AM

Larry I see what you're saying; In a recent thread I believe it was said by Logos that a more honest and clear effort would be made to describe what visual elements are there and not there in visually enhanced resources.

While just getting the maps would be your first choice (and mine too!) I remind you of Logos' 30 day no questions asked return policy.  I've used it more than once and its a very quick phone call to CS!

Posts 71
Brian Huddleston | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 14 2011 6:25 AM

Larry Good:
There are two resources available for purchase the Nelson's Bible Map Collection and  Nelson's Complete Book of Bible Maps and Charts Revised. I wonder if both of the index correctly to this dictionary resource. I'm going to guess it is the Basic not the Revised.

Yes, it only links to the Bible Map Collection.  Nelson's Complete Book of Bible Maps and Charts Revised is not an update of the Map Collection, but more like an expansion of Nelson's Teaching Outlines of the Bible.  The maps and images in both are low res with the Bible Map Collection being the same maps that have been in Nelson Bibles for a very long time and the ones in the Complete Book being black and white but with some good callout boxes.  I use Biblical Places, as others have mentioned, to quickly get to other maps that have better resolution.

Wylie, TX

Posts 95
Rick Brannan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 14 2011 6:45 AM

Hi All

Brian Huddleston:
The maps and images in both are low res with the Bible Map Collection being the same maps that have been in Nelson Bibles for a very long time

I don't have answers, but can give some history about the Nelson Bible Map thinige since I was working in Logos electronic text development at that time. Basically, Brian is right on track.

When Nelson originally released their product, it was a single collection ("Nelson's Electronic Bible Reference Library", aka NEBRL). Several of the resources in that collection shared the same map set -- the one you typically see in the back of Nelson study Bibles and other references, like dictionaries.

This was 1996-1997, and back then disk space / CDRom space was an issue. So rather than duplicate these maps in every resource in the collection, I think the decision was made to create the map collection so the maps would be there, but only once.

My guess is that when the collection was split up for individual sale, this aspect was overlooked.

Hope it helps.

Rick Brannan | Twitter: @RickBrannan
my books in print

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