Search for Words Repeated Three Times - "emphatic Semitic triplet"

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 9:28 AM

Mark Barnes:
"It is the strongest form of the superlative in Hebrew. Its use here indicates that Israel’s God is the most “godly” of all the gods."</edit>

That is complete nonsense. Simple as.

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 9:35 AM

Paul Newsome:
I would add that the result from Jeremiah 22 is actually in context a verbal chant those from Judah would use to possibly try and call God to do their biddings.  It was the result of too many years without being in intimate relationship with God.  I guess it doesn't conform with emphasis either, but the tool was still great in finding it!

That view was put forward by Herrmann in ZAW of 1950. He based it on the formula irsitum irsitum irsitum (imagine a diacritical point under the s) in incantations. There are a lot of repetitions in incantations it is part of the genre and there is no reason to assume that there is any link. It is a mere coincidence.

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David J. Sugg | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 11:26 AM

Mark,

Where is this quote from?

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 2:00 PM

David J. Sugg:
Where is this quote from?

I said Hamilton in error, sorry. (I'm studying Hamilton NICOT commentary on Genesis at the moment and it was obviously still on my mind!). It's actually from Oswalt's NICOT commentary on Isaiah 1-39 (pg 181). Motyer takes the identical view:

"Hebrew uses repetition to express superlatives or to indicate totality.5 Only here is a threefold repetition found. Holiness is supremely the truth about God, and his holiness is in itself so far beyond human thought that a ‘super-superlative’ has to be invented to express it."

5. In Gn. 14:10 ‘pits, pits’ is rendered ‘full of pits’, and in 2 Ki. 25:15 ‘gold, gold’ is rendered ‘pure gold’.

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 3:01 PM

Mark Barnes:
The modern usage given in those examples does not conform exactly what is being suggested in the OT. Even if it was, it's a non sequitur to suggest that in itself proves it wasn't distinctively semitic in ancient times. (I have no idea whether it is or not. I'm merely saying we don't have enough evidence in this thread to come to a conclusion.)

This is a known rhetorical device in both Attic Greek and Latin. 

See: Lausberg. Handbuch der literarischen Rhetorik. (3 Auflage) sections 608-634 where literally scores of ancient examples are cited. I guess you'll find even more if you browse Volkmann.

For Example:

Sophocles. Ajax 867

 

  Πόνος πόνῳ πόνον φέρει·πᾷ πᾷ πᾷ γὰρ οὐκ ἔβαν ἐγώ;        κοὐδεὶς ἐπίσταταί με συμμαθεῖν τόπος. 694      Ἔφριξ’ ἔρωτι, περιχαρὴς δ’ ἀνεπτάμαν. Ἰὼ ἰώ, Πὰν Πάν, ὦ Πάν, Πὰν ἁλίπλαγκτε, Κυλλανίας χιονοκτύπου 396 ἕλεσθ’ ἕλεσθέ μ’ οἰκήτορα, ἕλεσθέ μ’· οὔτε γὰρ θεῶν γένος οὔθ’ ἁμερίων ἔτ’ ἄξιος βλέπειν τιν’ εἰς ὄνασιν ἀνθρώπων  Sophocles Oedipus Coloneus 210 μή, μή μ’ ἀνέρῃ τίς εἰμι,

 

 

I rest my case.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 3:14 PM

David Knoll:

David J. Sugg:
The only NT example is Revelation 4:8 - "And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"

And Revelation 8:13

In Re 8.13 ff this is understood as literally 3 woes.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 3:28 PM

George Somsel:
In Re 8.13 ff this is understood as literally 3 woes.

No George you misunderstood. It's an emphatic Semitic triplet in the famous Semitic language: Koine Greek.Smile

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 4:11 PM

Mark Barnes:
5. In Gn. 14:10 ‘pits, pits’ is rendered ‘full of pits’, and in 2 Ki. 25:15 ‘gold, gold’ is rendered ‘pure gold’.

We have to refine the query for two words in order to avoid those that repeat 3 times (or more, theoretically)

The repetition in 2 Kings 25:15 ("gold, gold" and "silver, silver") is analysed differently and are not found with this query. If Agreement did not crash L4 then they would be found!

Dave
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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 7:49 PM

In all of your L4 searching, did Jer. 7:4 not turn up? I have always seen Ezek. 21:27 as a kind of response to Jeremiah's sarcastic stab at the religiously presumptious ones of Judah (and of Israel by implication).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 8:28 PM

David Paul:
In all of your L4 searching, did Jer. 7:4 not turn up?

That is a repetition of three phrases so you have to substitute Phrase for Segment in the above query. This form of the query shows that Jer 7:4 is unique:-

EDIT: if you want to combine both forms of the query:-

Dave
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Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 11:43 PM

David Paul:

In all of your L4 searching, did Jer. 7:4 not turn up? I have always seen Ezek. 21:27 as a kind of response to Jeremiah's sarcastic stab at the religiously presumptious ones of Judah (and of Israel by implication).

Ok pretend I never spoke about Jer 22.  What I said in my previous post was, as DP found, for Jer 7:4.  Jer 22 is what I'm studying for this Sunday.  *sigh*

Posts 50
Darrell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 12:21 AM

I was attempting to follow along and learn some syntax searching myself.

 

For the result of this syntax search I got   Is 6:3    Je 7:4    Je 22:29   and  Eze 21:32

Ezekiel 21:32 (KJV) — 32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the Lord have spoken it.

But that seems to be Eze 21:27

Ezekiel 21:27 (KJV) — 27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

 

or have I missed something?

 

 

Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home,  Logos 7,    

Samsung gs7 phone

Posts 50
Darrell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 12:25 AM

Removed duplicate

 

Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home,  Logos 7,    

Samsung gs7 phone

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 12:39 AM

Darrell:
or have I missed something?

Verse 32 in the Hebrew text is verse 27 in KJV

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Darrell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 10:08 AM

Thanks David

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Samsung gs7 phone

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Conquer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 18 2012 1:46 PM

Mark, do you have the full references for BDF and NIDOTTE? I do not seem to have these resources, and would very much like to quote them in my next essay! Many thanks. 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 2:23 AM

NIDOTTE:
Jenson, P. P. שָׁלֹשׁ, שְׁלֹשָׁה in New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis. Edited by Willem VanGemeren. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1997, 4:144-145

The quote from BDF is as follows:


(E) Figures Involving Repetition

493.  (1) Epanadiplosis, i.e. the repetition of an important word for emphasis, is not unknown in the NT, but it can nowhere be considered rhetorical. It is rather a direct report of words actually spoken, which is best seen in A 19:34: μεγάλη ἡ Ἄρτεμις Ἐφεσίων, μεγάλη ἡ Ἄ. Ἐ. (thus B), which was shouted for two hours. (2) Distributive doubling is not rhetorical, but vulgar. It appears not only with numerals (s. §248(1)) but occasionally also elsewhere (Hebrew, but also MGr, cf. Dieterich 188; Psichari 183f.): Mk 6:39 συμπόσια συμπόσια, 40 πρασιαὶ πρασιαί = κατὰ συμπόσια, κ. πρασιάς; cf. §158. (3) Climax consists in taking up the key word of the preceding member in the following one: R 5:3ff. ἡ θλῖψις ὑπομονὴν κατεργάζεται, ἡ δὲ ὑπομονὴ δοκιμήν, ἡ δὲ δοκιμὴ ἐλπίδα, ἡ δὲ ἐλπὶς οὐ καταισχύνει; cf. 8:29f.

(1) Rev 14:8 = 18:2 ἔπεσεν ἔπεσεν Βαβυλὼν ἡ μεγάλη, Mt 25:11 κύριε κύριε, Lk 8:24 ἐπιστάτα ἐπιστάτα, Mt 23:7 (DΓ etc.) and Mk 14:45 (AEFG etc.) ῥαββὶ ῥαββί, Mk 5:41 acc. to e τὸ κοράσιον τὸ κοράσιον, Jn 19:6 σταύρωσον σταύρωσον, Lk 10:41 Μάρθα Μάρθα, Rev 4:8 ἅγιος ἅγιος ἅγιος (LXX Is 6:3). Dyadic word combination and composition: Morgenthaler, Die lukanische Geschichtsschreibung als Zeugnis (I 17f.: Lk 7 times, A 9:4 = 22:7 = 26:14 Σαοὺλ Σαούλ). Rhetorical: 1 Clem 47.6 αἰσχρά, ἀγαπητοί, καὶ λίαν αἰσχρὰ καὶ ἀνάξια etc. Cf. LXX (e.g. Jdth 4:2 σφόδρα σφόδρα) and pap. (e.g. the magic formula ἤδη ἤδη ταχὺ ταχύ PGM II 7.373 (iii AD), BGU III 956 (c. iii AD). Cf. Jannaris §§513, 521; Raderm.2 68f., 225 and IF Anz. 31 (1913) 8; Bonaccorsi 140, 562; Norden 169, and on Virgil’s Aeneid VI 46 (2nd ed.); E. Hofmann, Ausdrucksverstärkung, especially 16f. (adj.), 24 (address), 24f. (impera.), 38 (adv.), 44f. (stylistic usage); W. Schulze, BPhW 1895, 8 = Kl. Schr. 680. Hebr. J. Muilenburg, VT Supplement I (1953) 101f., Brockelmann, Hebräische Syntax §129b. MGr e.g. Thumb2 264.4 [276] κλαίει κλαίει, 263 [275] ἔκλαιε ἔκλαιε twice, 263 σφιχτὰ σφιχτά ‘very tight’, 257 [269] γύμναζε γύμναζε ‘he exercised untiringly’; Ljungvik, Aegyptus 13 (1933) 162 ἐπερίμενα ὧρες ὧρες ‘I waited for hours’. With καί: μείζων καὶ μείζων Herm Vis 4.1.6, ἔτι καὶ ἔτι ‘again and again’ Barn 21.4. Cf. Ἑρμῆς ὁ μέγας καὶ μέγας Dit., Or. 90.65 (196 BC; decree from Rosetta), similarly in the pap. (Mayser II 1, 54; with and without καί).
(2) In Mt 13:30 δεσμὰς δεσμάς (Epiph Or) also appears to be the correct reading. Cf. §158. Hofmann, op. cit. (supra (1)) 21 (subst.), 37f. (numbers). LXX e.g. ἄνθρωπος ἄνθρωπος ‘everyone’ Num 9:10, ἔθνη ἔθνη ‘every nation’ 4 Km 17:29, συνήγαγον αὐτοὺς θημωνιὰς θημωνιάς ‘in heaps’ Ex 8:14 (10) (all in Hebr. as well; cf. Brockelmann, Hebräische Syntax §129a). With καί: ἡμέρᾳ καὶ ἡμέρᾳ §200(1); Brockelmann, op. cit. §129d (syndetic pairs of this type are rare in Hebr.). On the other hand ἐν γενεᾷ καὶ γενεᾷ 1 Clem 7.5, εἰς γενεὰς καὶ γενεάς (v.l. εἰς γενεὰν καὶ γενεάν like LXX Ps 48:12 etc., γενεὰς γενεῶν et al.) Lk 1:50 more nearly means ‘on many generations to come’ than ‘for every generation’; M.–H. 439f. Also with distributive κατά (cf. §248(1)): LXX 1 Km 7:16 κατʼ ἐνιαυτὸν ἐνιαυτόν and the like (M.–H. 439), κατὰ πρᾶγμα πρᾶγμα ‘for every thing’(?) PLond V 1732.7 (586 AD?).
(3) R 10:14 is decidedly rhetorical: πῶς οὖν ἐπικαλέσωνται εἰς ὃν οὐκ ἐπίστευσαν; πῶς δὲ πιστεύσωσιν οὗ οὐκ ἤκουσαν; πῶς δὲ ἀκούσωσιν χωρὶς κηρύσσοντος; πῶς δὲ κηρύζωσιν, ἐὰν μὴ ἀποσταλῶσιν; 2 P 1:5ff. likewise: ἐπιχορηγήσατε ἐν τῇ πίστει ὑμῶν τὴν ἀρετήν, ἐν δὲ τῇ ἀρετῇ τὴν γνῶσιν, ἐν δέ etc. (7 members in all; but the purpose of the figure here is difficult to understand). Herm Man 5.2.4 ἐκ τῆς ἀφροσύνης γίνεται πικρία, ἐκ δὲ τῆς πικρίας θυμός, ἐκ δὲ τοῦ θυμοῦ ὀργή, ἐκ δὲ τῆς ὀργῆς μῆνις· εἶτα ἡ μῆνις …. There is a similar figure in a fragment of the comedian Epicharmus (Frag. 148 Kaibel) ἐκ μὲν θυσίας θοίνα, ἐκ δὲ θοίνας πόσις ἐγένετο … ἐκ δὲ πόσιος κῶμος, ἐκ κώμου δʼ ἐγένεθʼ ὑανία (‘swinish behavior’), ἐκ δʼ ὑανίας δίκα …. The rhetoricians found the climax as early as Hom., Il. 2.102ff. (Ἥφαιστος μὲν δῶκε Διὶ …, αὐτὰρ ἄρα Ζεὺς δῶκε διακτόρῳ ἀργεϊφόντῃ, Ἑρμείας δὲ ….)—Cf. Wilke, Rhetorik 398, who adduces Ja 1:14f. and (incorrectly) 1 C 11:3 in addition.

Blass, Friedrich, Albert Debrunner, and Robert Walter Funk. A Greek Grammar of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1961, pg 261

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Conquer | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 2:43 AM

Wow, that's quick! Many thanks, very helpful.

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DLS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 1:47 PM

I though this topic needed another David to chime in. Thanks for sharing all of this. Is there a way to search for thrice repeated phrases like Jer 7:4 

הֵיכַל יְהוָה הֵיכַל יְהוָה הֵיכַל יְהוָה

and 2 Sam 19:1 [Eng. 18:33]?

בְּנִי אַבְשָׁלוֹם בְּנִי בְנִי אַבְשָׁלוֹם

I don't believe these are instances of epizeuxis technically, but I'd think any discussion on the topic should include these references. For what it's worth, I don't think there are any other examples of this repetition.  

Mark, would you mind giving the exact citation for the quotation from NIDOTTE?

Shakes head in shame. Didn't see the second page. 

Posts 808
Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 22 2015 8:19 AM

David Knoll:

Dave Hooton:
These only confirm the results provided  - 3 in OT + 2 in NT.

That result is correct.

For the benefit of lurkers, would you mind giving the other NT example?

Thanks,
Lazy Jack

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