Reverse interlinears vs Regular Interlinears

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Denise | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 19 2011 10:07 AM

(Close your eyes George, while you're reading this. You may experience a heart attack.)

For those that get frustrated with the right-click on interlinears producing multiple lemmas and the first lemma often being non-significant (an article,  etc), I notice the reverse interlinears always deliver the primary lemma. Yea!

I normally don't particularly like the reverse interlinears; I'd would rather see the original sequence, etc. But the right-clicks work a lot better in quickly getting to the lexicons.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2011 11:04 AM

DMB:
(Close your eyes George...

Yes, good advice to George Big Smile

DMB:
I normally don't particularly like the reverse interlinears; I'd would rather see the original sequence, etc. But the right-clicks work a lot better in quickly getting to the lexicons.

That's exactly why I think RI are great. You work with the English Bible and just one right click and you are at all your prioritized lexicons. I use it very often.

Bohuslav

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2011 10:17 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

DMB:
(Close your eyes George...

Yes, good advice to George Big Smile

DMB:
I normally don't particularly like the reverse interlinears; I'd would rather see the original sequence, etc. But the right-clicks work a lot better in quickly getting to the lexicons.

That's exactly why I think RI are great. You work with the English Bible and just one right click and you are at all your prioritized lexicons. I use it very often.

Forum discussion => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/35136/264941.aspx#264941 doubles right click lexicon linkage: one set of lexicons for lemma with different set for Strong's numbers: essentially RI right click to one of 10 prioritized lexicons.

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2011 10:58 PM

To each his own, I suppose. I haven't ever used a reverse interlinear and never will, I expect. I use LHI profusely, though.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2011 11:15 PM

David Paul:

To each his own, I suppose. I haven't ever used a reverse interlinear and never will, I expect. I use LHI profusely, though.

Personally wish for Strong's number tagging to be added to LHI so would have right click option for 10 lexicons.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2011 11:50 PM

David Paul:

To each his own, I suppose. I haven't ever used a reverse interlinear and never will, I expect. I use LHI profusely, though.

Yes, for a person who reads Hebrew fluently LHI is much better option. That's not my case however, and I think many other Logos users also. Sad

P.S. But I am working on that, as time allows... Smile

Bohuslav

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 12:02 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

P.S. But I am working on that, as time allows... Smile

That's the main thing. I am not exactly fluent, but when you deal with something every day, it rubs off. Sort of a "whole language" approach. My vocabulary is increasing constantly. I try memorizing significant passages in Hebrew, and I recite them periodically to myself. I am going to begin memorizing Psalm 119 soon. Oddly, I seem to be better able to memorize and recite extended passages in Hebrew than in English.

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 12:12 AM

David Paul:

Bohuslav Wojnar:

P.S. But I am working on that, as time allows... Smile

 

That's the main thing. I am not exactly fluent, but when you deal with something every day, it rubs off. Sort of a "whole language" approach. My vocabulary is increasing constantly. I try memorizing significant passages in Hebrew, and I recite them periodically to myself. I am going to begin memorizing Psalm 119 soon. Oddly, I seem to be better able to memorize and recite extended passages in Hebrew than in English.

Yes

Bohuslav

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 5:36 AM

DMB:

(Close your eyes George, while you're reading this. You may experience a heart attack.)

If he drops by in time, he may be intrigued your post-count for this thread (as I just couldn't help noticing) ... 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 6:05 AM

Yes, I had to gulp twice when I saw your clipping. Oh my. Here in Arizona and the state next to us, there was a nice US highway with the number 666. It survived it's numbering for about 66 years until the highway department completely renumbered it across several states.

It was obvious something had gone terribly wrong, since north/south highways in the US are odd-numbered and this one was even. Hmm.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 8:31 AM

DMB:

Yes, I had to gulp twice when I saw your clipping. Oh my. Here in Arizona and the state next to us, there was a nice US highway with the number 666. It survived it's numbering for about 66 years until the highway department completely renumbered it across several states.

It was obvious something had gone terribly wrong, since north/south highways in the US are odd-numbered and this one was even. Hmm.

Route 66 is an east-west highway.  It still exists, at least in part.  I freqently used 66 when I was in the D.C. area.  A friend of mine lives only a little off 66 in Fairfax, VA.

I used to be with AOL and decided to use Polycarp as a screen name.  They insisted that I put a number with it so I used 66 after Polycarp since the number of spaces alloted wasn't sufficient for 666.  Later they allowed the extra so I changed it to Polycarp666.  Why associate 666 with Polycarp?  I think Polycarp wrote the Apocalypse (which means it was written later than normally believed).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 8:52 AM

DMB:
. . . I notice the reverse interlinears always deliver the primary lemma.

Not always.

When a single noun in the surface (English, usually) text, translates a noun plus def. art. in the original, this doesn't happen.

See this for example where "your hearts" (NIV) translates ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν:

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 9:30 AM

Woops! Oh well, thank you Richard.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 10797
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 10:12 AM

Hi George ... I was referring to the 2nd-tier highway US666, which crossed Route 66 in Gallup New Mexico. But you're right about Route 66, though I think (but could be wrong) it headed up to Chicago? The Old Trails Highways in the 1920s I think went to DC though.

I'm curious: how do you associate the Apocalypse (traditionally John's I assume) with Polycarp?

My greek pattern sequencing matches Rev's vision-segment even with the 1st century (CE) judaic writings, and the 'wrapper' (chapters 1-3, 19-22) with the 2 Peter period.

I tried sequencing Polycarp's greek (which is pretty iffy) and didn't get anywhere concerning a match.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 10:56 AM

DMB:

Hi George ... I was referring to the 2nd-tier highway US666, which crossed Route 66 in Gallup New Mexico. But you're right about Route 66, though I think (but could be wrong) it headed up to Chicago? The Old Trails Highways in the 1920s I think went to DC though.

I'm curious: how do you associate the Apocalypse (traditionally John's I assume) with Polycarp?

My greek pattern sequencing matches Rev's vision-segment even with the 1st century (CE) judaic writings, and the 'wrapper' (chapters 1-3, 19-22) with the 2 Peter period.

I tried sequencing Polycarp's greek (which is pretty iffy) and didn't get anywhere concerning a match.

First, it must be perfectly clear that John the Apostle died in Jerusalem -- therefore prior to 70 ad.  The feast day of James and John are celebrated by the Syrian Church's list of feast days as "in Jerusalem" (see Charles, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Revelation of St. John, pp xlv-xlviii <logosres:icc-rev;ref=VolumePage.V_1,_pp_xlv-xlvii>).  The depiction of the Church of the time of the writing indicates a development in its structure so that there now were Metropolitan Bishops.   The praxis of the Church as revealed in the martyrs under the altar (6.9) indicates a development of martyrology (first seen already in Paul, 1 Cor 15.12-34 where we have the otherwise mysterious 1 Cor 15.29

Ἐπεὶ τί ποιήσουσιν οἱ βαπτιζόμενοι ὑπὲρ τῶν νεκρῶν; εἰ ὅλως νεκροὶ οὐκ ἐγείρονται, τί καὶ βαπτίζονται ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν;

where it appears that Paul uses a classical understanding of the pronoun ὑπέρ as being "on top of, over" -- see LSJ <logosres:lsj;art=r.u.572> (you won't find this in BDAG).  There is the reference as well to "the morning star" which was a title Akiba used of bar Kokhba and was a messianic title.  Regarding the language -- he wasn't using his normal style of writing but imitating what he perceived to represent the speech pattern of the Apostle (which was not that of the author of the gospel and the epistles which I take to have been written by John the Elder of Ephesus).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10797
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 2:04 PM

I hadn't caught that nuance on 'baptism over the dead', who presumably would still 'be' there. Thank you.

I'd have to assume with a late date for Rev, that working its way into being 'received' would have been an interesting challenge; I think it was Charlesworth that noted the apocalypse-writings dieing out fairly quickly, if I remember right.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 236
Mikko Paavola | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 2:10 PM

Hi!

I've been wondering what is the purpose of Reverse interlinears. I haven't found an answer for that. Is it only to see how a particular English Bible has been translated? As a non-English reader I can't find dozens of English translations and Reverse interlinears so helpful.

I would gladly see more real Interlinears in the Base packages instead of Reverse interlinears. I think Interlinears with lemmas, morphology and translation are very helpful for getting into original Bible texts, when the reader is not so advanced in original languages.

 

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 3:03 PM

I can only speak for myself.

I like them because, if you hide all the lines except the english (appearing like a normal Bible), then you can read along normally, and if you quickly want more information on a word, you just move your mouse over the word and it shows the lemma, morph-tag etc. A right-click quickly takes you to your lexicons for more.

This is especially handy in church, where you're trying to listen but have a quick question on a word.

 For more in-depth study, I agree, the normal interlinear is best. I bought the Original Languages package just to get the OT interlinear. I thought nothing of spending $300+ just for that. It'd be nice if the interlinears were in more base packages.

Even better, I wish there'd be some non-english interlinears (hint, hint .... Japanese!).

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 4:16 PM

DMB:

I hadn't caught that nuance on 'baptism over the dead', who presumably would still 'be' there. Thank you.

I'd have to assume with a late date for Rev, that working its way into being 'received' would have been an interesting challenge; I think it was Charlesworth that noted the apocalypse-writings dieing out fairly quickly, if I remember right.

A generation or so would be sufficient for its acceptance.  It must also be remembered that it was not initially universally accepted.  As for apocalyptic dying out, I think it was around 200 ad.  You should also look at two passages in Acts:  Acts 19.11-15 and 5.12-16.  These practices appear to be evidence of a development in a theology of relics. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 4:52 PM

George Somsel:

First, it must be perfectly clear that John the Apostle died in Jerusalem -- therefore prior to 70 ad.  

George - Two questions:

First, why do you think that it is "perfectly clear that John the Apostle died in Jerusalem"?

Second, How does his death in Jerusalem equate to his death prior to 70 AD. Surely other people died in Jerusalem AFTER the events of 70AD. Smile

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