Jeff A. Benner?

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Douglas | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Sep 17 2011 9:49 PM

Hello, Do any of the Hebrew Scholars reading have any opinions on the works of Author : Jeff A. Benner? Thank You.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 17 2011 10:11 PM

Douglas:

Hello, Do any of the Hebrew Scholars reading have any opinions on the works of Author : Jeff A. Benner? Thank You.

I had never heard of him before so I googled him and took a look at his web site.  I would not recommend him.  He is something of a kook.  He doesn't seem to understand that words in any language vary in meaning depending upon their context and cannot therefore be translated the same in every instance.  He really doesn't understand the language -- he only thinks he understands it better than those who have been involved in various translations or commentaries.  (Never trust anyone's knowledge of biblical languages when they must rely on Strong's.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 17 2011 11:08 PM

'Preserves and translates each Hebrew prefix, suffix and conjugation with exact English translations." from Benner's site

This statement would make me very suspicious. Even languages that are closely related rarely have exact translations. It becomes even more difficult across differing cultures and times. I do know others who hold to something similar to this but have never seen them produce an accurate translation or even one I could gain much benefit from. Then again, there are only a handful of individuals who succeed in producing a translation that is as good as one by a group of scholars. The act of being required to defend your translation does a great deal to force one to work very carefully.

Logos4catholics Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 17 2011 11:15 PM

Here's a sample page from his A Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis:

Do you find that helps you understand the text?

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Douglas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2011 8:35 AM

Hello :). Thank you very much for your replies. Your advice has been gratefully received. Blessings.

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 6:32 AM

George Somsel:
(Never trust anyone's knowledge of biblical languages when they must rely on Strong's.

 

I'm getting a T-Shirt made with this on it! Big Smile

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 2
Jeff A. Benner | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 24 2012 8:38 AM

 

Hello Mr. Somsel, this is the kook :-)

I'm sure you've heard the saying "don't judge a book by it's cover?" It appears that your judgement of me and my book "A Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis," was based solely on the cover of the book, which states, "The Hebrew text literally translated word for word."

It is true that the "Mechanical Translation" method does translate every Hebrew word, prefix and suffix the same way every time it appears, but this translation serves a unique purpose as the introduction points out.

Page 8 - It is not the intention of this book to replace all existing translations and dictionaries but instead to be a study guide to assist the reader to see the text from its raw Hebraic perspective. This translation may also be used by those learning Hebrew as a tool for identifying words, prefixes and suffixes and verb conjugations as well as Hebrew sentence structures and how to properly translate and interpret the text.

The Mechanical Translation is meant to allow people to "see" the Hebrew text of the Bible, without having to know Hebrew. It is also an aid for those who are learning Hebrew to be able to learn how to identify Hebrew words, prefixes and suffixes.

I have never claimed that one English word can always translate one Hebrew word, but the opposite is true as a few excerpts from the introduction will demonstrate.

Page 12-Some words have various nuances of meaning. In most cases the context will help define the nuance, but in some cases the nuance cannot be determined. For instance, in 4:26 the word “pierced” can be interpreted as “begin” or “profane;” but, the context does not make clear which nuance is intended.

Page 13 - Most Hebrew words can be used in a literal or figurative application which will usually be defined by the context it is used. For instance, the word hand can literally refer to the hand as in 22:6. But, this same word is used in 9:2 figuratively to mean “at hand” or “in possession.”

Page 13 - While the RMT strives to translate each Hebrew word exactly the same way each time it appears, there will be times where the context of the passage or English sentence structure will require the word to be translated differently. For instance, in 4:25 the MT has the phrase “Seed Other Under.” The word “Other” can also be translated as “another” and the word “Under” can also be translated as “in place of.” Therefore this phrase is translated in the RMT as “another seed in place of.”

Page 14 - The active voice of the verb ראה ra’ah means to “see” but, the passive voice, identified by the prefix “be~”, means “be seen” but is translated as “appeared” in the RMT. As another example, the simple mood of the verb בוא bo means to “come” but, the causative mood, identified by the prefix “make~”, means “make come” but, is translated as “bring” in the RMT. A complete list of these verb translational variations are listed in appendix A.

The Mechanical Translation is accompanied with a "Revised" translation, which takes the Mechanical Translations and rewords and rearranges the words so that it can be understood in English syntax. It is also accompanied with footnotes, a dictionary and appendices for help in clarifying Hebrew words.

I am of the opinion that in most, but certainly not all cases, one Hebrew word can be translated with one Hebrew word. In my opinion this is a much better translation than one that translates one Hebrew word a hundred different ways. I have written the article "Redefining Biblical Words," which details how translations often unnecessarily translate Hebrew words with a variety of English words.

Approximately 90% of the time, one Hebrew word can be translated the same way, however the translators find it necessary to translate that one word the same way only about 10% of the time. Wouldn't a translation that stays as close to the original language be a better translation? Today's translations "fix" the text for the average reader so that it can be understood easily. I believe we are lacking a more literal translation, that is accompanied with translational notes for the serious reader who wants to dig deeper into the text. My article "Is a Mechanical Translation Possible?" may be of interest and will help to clarify my perspectives of Bible translations.

By the way, I strongly agree with your statement "Never trust anyone's knowledge of biblical languages when they must rely on Strong's," as I believe Strong's to be a great beginners tool, but is very lacking in detail. Here is my article on my opinion of Strong's in my article "Is Strong's Dictionary enough for studying the Hebrew text of the Bible? if you are interested. BTW, אני יכול לקרוא ולתרגם עברית מקראית.

 

Sincerely;

Jeff A. Benner

Ancient Hebrew Research Center

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org

http://www.mechanical-translation.org

Posts 8533
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 24 2012 8:57 AM

Jeff A. Benner:
Hello Mr. Somsel, this is the kook :-)

I'm pleased to see that you admit the facts.  Now you can begin your recovery.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 898
Joan Korte | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 24 2012 9:14 AM

Jeff A. Benner:

Jeff A. Benner

Ancient Hebrew Research Center

 

Hi Jeff and welcome to the Logos forums! 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your resources and for generously making them readily available--I have benefitted from them as I have used them in e-sword.  God bless!

Posts 2
Jeff A. Benner | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 24 2012 10:21 AM

Joan Korte:

Hi Jeff and welcome to the Logos forums! 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your resources and for generously making them readily available--I have benefitted from them as I have used them in e-sword.  God bless!

Hello Joan and thank you for the support and I hope the materials continue to help you in your studies of Hebrew and the Bible.

Jeff

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 8:34 AM

Peace, Jeff!               and ..........             Always Joy in the Lord!         *smile*

          I have noted and bookmarked your website, am grateful for your sharing it, and will examine and study some of your sharings in the near future.  I am taking a vacation in February and that will be an ideal time for me to some some extensive study.  Thank you for your very positive approach.

                                                               Psalm 119:105

                                                                                                                                      105

                               נֵר־לְרַגְלִ֥י דְבָרֶ֑ךָ וְ֝א֗וֹר

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Warren Knott | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 7 2012 6:51 AM

Hi Jeff,

I'm currently studying hebrew at uni.

Just out of curiosity, why only use Hebrew lexicons/bibles etc that are hundreds of years old? Surely you considered using some of the corrected updated versions which are readily available?

You have made a lot of new claims without any evidence or reference, so how can students know that you're not confusing Hebrew languages and characters with the many other languages around at the time? If the Hebrews came out of Egypt before their writings, wouldn't their concepts of heaven and hell conveyed in their writings be a lot closer to the Egyptians than those in the lands they invaded? (which you seem to assume they were more similar to).

your pottery 4000 years old (1_introduction.html) found in present day Israel would be more likely belonging to one of the people groups the Hebrews slaughtered as they entered Israel approx. 3500 years ago as they came out of Egypt. Only a few hundred Hebrews at most, including kids, would have gone down to Egypt, and I doubt anyone could pick out their writings from those around them at that time.  But after 400+ years in Egypt, if Moses was brought up with a royal household, his education / thoughts would have been far different than that of the groups remaining in the land.

the mechanical way also means you are very open to translating every word incorrectly most of the time, based on your own personal opinions. the Hebrew bible was reportedly compiled over many hundreds of years, and i would have thought words and meanings would have changed in that time, as it they have done in every other language known in history, with words changing meanings within the 1000 year period it was written.

it seems you're trying to change a whole lot of whats considered the historical christian norm, do you mind me asking what denomination/faith/belief that you adhere to from?  Are any organizations or groups funding your project? 

I'm just asking so we can all get the clear perspective from which you are writing / publishing/ teaching, the lens through which you view the information before you.

 

Thanks and regards,

Warren Knott

 

Posts 2
Warren Knott | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 7 2012 3:57 PM

and Jeff, whats your affiliation with this site: http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/Falseprophetsites.htm

they seem to promote your work a lot.

If what you say is true about weight being the focus of Gen 1:1 and not time, why is the jewish calendar based on time and not weight? why are the time periods the focus of much of the early chapters and not weight?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 7 2012 10:56 PM

Jeff A. Benner:
It is true that the "Mechanical Translation" method does translate every Hebrew word, prefix and suffix the same way every time it appears, but this translation serves a unique purpose as the introduction points out.

Welcome to our forums Jeff. If you not been following the forums you may not know George as our friendly curmudgeon. However, I think that George and I have a very different notion of how language works than you do.Your post clarifying your position is helpful but I'd be helped even more if I knew what linguist, theologian or philosopher you are basing your work on.

Logos4catholics Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Jonathan Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 11 2013 4:14 PM
All I can say is Thank You sir for all of your hard work. I have enjoyed a majority of your teachings and found them to be very clear. I may not be a scholar but I am on the same journey as every human walking this earth. And I want truth not a white washed theology that becomes a crutch to make all things permissible. Through out my life as a preachers child I have seen more churches that want to please and serve the people instead of God and Truth. I am sorry that someone called you out In such a way, but proud of the way you presented your response. Thank you for all you do
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ROGER JIMENEZ | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 12 2013 12:20 AM

MJ. Smith:
Welcome to our forums Jeff

That's the spirit!

And the words became alive!

And to think that Hebrew was considered a dead language for centuries! But, behold the hebrew!

Warren Knott:
it seems you're trying to change a whole lot of whats considered the historical christian norm,

If things were so complicated and so difficult, (as dramatically Warren pictures), it would be impposible to talk about. Doubt would reings forever!

Before shocked me to hear different things that those, traditionally, I had been taught, but I think our theology has been in hands of and influenced by philosophy, rather than by the Holy Spirit, and we should no fear other perspectives. Everything can become an idol. Don't touch, don't ask, don't even think about. It's ok to rewiew Strong, Hebrew is getting more and more importance today. Hebrew thought is now closer than ever, we have the Talmud in Logos! It clarifies the context of the Gospels and the teaching of Jesus and Paul, the whole teachings of NT really.

Baruch Adonay hamevorach le'olam va'ed!!!

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