First purchase on Dead Sea Scroll Bible

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This post has 15 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Sep 20 2011 2:26 AM

I am new to Dead Sea Scroll and want to buy, say, an English translation, on it, since I am not good at the original language. Which one would you suggest me to buy in Logos?

And are there any Dead Sea Scroll interlinear?

Thanks.

Posts 667
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2011 4:15 AM

Some of the scrolls contain biblical texts. For these the standard Logos version, http://www.logos.com/product/5961/qumran-biblical-dead-sea-scrolls-database, contains only original languages (with morphology). However, http://www.logos.com/product/8933/dead-sea-scrolls-bible is in prepub at a very reasonable price.

For the non-biblical texts, which provide useful background information on a religious community around the time of Christ and are frequently referred to by commentaries, http://www.logos.com/product/4241/the-dead-sea-scrolls-study-edition-vol-i-1q1-4q273-vol-ii-4q274-11q31 is the scholarly edition from Logos, with original languages and English tranlations. http://www.logos.com/product/8868/the-dead-sea-scrolls-a-new-translation is in prepub, a companion to the prepub I mentioned above. Vermes' translation, http://www.logos.com/product/7129/the-dead-sea-scrolls-in-english, is well regarded. I don't have it and am not sure if the Logos edition has the complete scrolls or just a selection. It does seem very overpriced compared to editions at a popular online bookstore.

If you are just dabbling your foot in the subject, you may be best to order the prepubs and wait for them to come to fruition (both "under development" but no shipping date yet).

Posts 2457
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2011 5:48 AM

I would also highly recommend The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible in English.  To my knowledge, it is the only English translation of the Biblical manuscripts found at Qumran. 

http://www.logos.com/product/8933/dead-sea-scrolls-bible

If you want to learn about the scrolls The Dead Sea Scrolls Today by Vanderkam is very good and is available from Logos.  The Meaning of the Dead Sea Scrolls, in my opinion, is even better but is still in prepub.

http://www.logos.com/product/555/the-dead-sea-scrolls-today

http://www.logos.com/product/8934/the-meaning-of-the-dead-sea-scrolls

 

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 20 2011 7:09 AM

Thanks. I have added the 3 pre-pub to the pre-order queue. Thanks.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 9 2012 6:52 AM

Just 'resurrecting' this older thread ... Kolen signed up and I'm wondering whatever happened to the 'Dead Sea Scroll Bible'? I was reminded from another thread referring to this, this morning.

 

I don't know if you've noticed, but the authors are quite noted: Peter Flint, Martin Abegg and  Eugene Ulrich.

Plus Logos has 'in development' the update for Martin Abegg's and others'  update to the sectarian scrolls: http://www.logos.com/product/8868/the-dead-sea-scrolls-a-new-translation  It's interesting the number of scrolls when this was first published and now the update (7 years ago!).

Of course the Peter Flint volume (with James VanderKam) is ALSO still 'In Development': http://www.logos.com/product/8934/the-meaning-of-the-dead-sea-scrolls

You wonder if Dead Sea scroll volumes are just like the original releases: never to be heard from again (at least until the whiners arrived)

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"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2457
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 9 2012 7:04 AM

I am waiting for these to be completed.  It would be nice if Logos could give us an update on these resources.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 9 2012 11:47 AM

Every time I look at my Order Page I see the DSS volumes looking more and more lonely up there:

Though by now I'm beginning to wonder about the other two as well.

It's one thing when it's RI's, Logos-produced translations, or the like. Such things do, of course, take considerable time. But when fairly normal looking resources haven't been given a ship date 6 months or so after they reach 100%, it would be nice if they sent us an update.

Not that I have any urgent need for these, and not that I mind not having to part with the money, but the dollar is up about 16% the last year, and it looks like it's going to continue in that direction... Crying It was a lot less frustrating to wait when the dollar was going down. Smile

Hmm. Logos has publishers in Europe. How about they open a bank account in Euros, let us foreigners pay in that currency if we prefer, and then use the money to pay those publishers?

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Posts 2757
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 8:01 AM

Josephus introduces the Essenes as one of three Jewish “philosophies.” They are listed among the haireseis (whence heresies) of the Jews by Hegesippus and Epiphanius.   vol. 2, The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, ed. David Noel Freedman, 621

Are we in danger of changing our Bibles to agree with the works of Heresies by using the Dead Sea Scrolls versions? 

Please publish soon so we can investigate the changes for ourselves.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 8:25 AM

David Ames:

Josephus introduces the Essenes as one of three Jewish “philosophies.” They are listed among the haireseis (whence heresies) of the Jews by Hegesippus and Epiphanius.   vol. 2, The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, ed. David Noel Freedman, 621

Are we in danger of changing our Bibles to agree with the works of Heresies by using the Dead Sea Scrolls versions? 

Please publish soon so we can investigate the changes for ourselves.

I don't think that it is appropriate to label them "heretics" simply because the Greek term used is αἱρετιστής since this does not have the denotation or the connotation which our term "heretic" possesses.  The αἱρετιστής is "one who chooses".  When the related word αἰρετικός is used in Tit 3.10 it refers to a contentious person and not a heretic.  Even in Josephus it should be clear that he is not calling the Essenes "heretics" since he calls the Pharisees and Sadducees such as well (and Josephus was of that party).   It simply denotes a sect—or perhaps better yet, a party.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 645
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 9:13 AM

David Ames:

Josephus introduces the Essenes as one of three Jewish “philosophies.” They are listed among the haireseis (whence heresies) of the Jews by Hegesippus and Epiphanius.   vol. 2, The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, ed. David Noel Freedman, 621

Are we in danger of changing our Bibles to agree with the works of Heresies by using the Dead Sea Scrolls versions? 

Please publish soon so we can investigate the changes for ourselves.

George has placed the word haireseis  in its context for the time; but you might also want to know that the identification of the group responsible for the Qumran scrolls with the Essenes is not as certain as it once once, nor is it clear whether it can still be considered the consensus view. The recent Oxford Encyclopedia of the Dead Sea Scrolls has some articles challenging it, and Michael Wise in his translation of the Scrolls (which we are still waiting for) has a section in his introduction challenging this identification. 

Posts 2757
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 7:00 PM

From George Somsel “It simply denotes a sect—or perhaps better yet, a party.”

Dave> And that [IMHO] defines most of the "heretics" in History

From
Dean053 “know that the identification of the group responsible for the Qumran scrolls with the Essenes is not as certain as it once [was]”

Dave> So we go from a group called “heretics” to some unknown ‘party’?

From
David Ames “Please publish soon so we can investigate the changes for ourselves.”

Dave> Question: Can one give their own request a thumbs up??  Lets read the book and see where it goes!


Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 7:44 PM

David Ames:
So we go from a group called “heretics” to some unknown ‘party’?

You seem to ignore the fact that both the Pharisees and the Sadducees were also called sects by Josephus.  Why do you insist then that only the Essenes are to be considered heretics?  Somewhat inconsistent, don't you think?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 8:34 PM

As I understand it, broad support now exists for the proposal that the essenes may have altered the massorete texts. The major clue that finally broke open the mystery was (1) the close association of Qumran writings with the Samaritans and (2) a time-machine found in cave 11.

I know I'm being frivolous, but one seriously has to get the datings lined up in order to investigate the 'changes'.  Much less 'heretics'.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2163
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 8:35 PM

It seems like the point may be moot since all modern translations already incorporate changes due to the DSS.  It seems that changes that would be made have been made, so unless you are a KJVO, then you already have at least some changes.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 8:58 PM

Interesting!

DMB:
As I understand it, broad support now exists for the proposal that the essenes may have altered the massorete texts.
To various degrees! Some of the changes coming from the DSS have started to be implemented only at a late stage. And many Bible versions rely mainly on the 1977 Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartiensis and some Septuagint readings, such as the 1992 Good News Translation (but I recommend it). The very first Bible version that made use of the Qumran -scrolls, was the 1966 Jerusalem Bible, in Isaiah, that's one of the versions I recommend even for many other books in the Bible than just Isaiah.
Joseph Turner:
It seems like the point may be moot since all modern translations already incorporate changes due to the DSS. It seems that changes that would be made have been made, so unless you are a KJVO, then you already have at least some changes.

Aply!
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Posts 645
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2012 9:33 PM

David Ames:

From Dean053 “know that the identification of the group responsible for the Qumran scrolls with the Essenes is not as certain as it once [was]”

Dave> So we go from a group called “heretics” to some unknown ‘party’?

You'll have to figure out the implications, if any, for yourself--I was simply pointing out (and thought you might appreciate being made aware) that the Essene hypothesis has taken a bashing of late, and that a good discussion on the matter can be found in the not-yet-published Logos edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls translated by Michael Wise. 

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