Talmud Linking

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This post has 14 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 1942
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Sep 22 2011 5:51 PM

I just purchased the Neusner Babylonian/Jerusalem Talmud.  I also ordered the Mishnah.  Once I downloaded the resources, I went to both Osborne's and Beale's commentaries on revelation to check the linking; however, for some reason the links for the Babylonian/Jersalem Talmud in both commentaries are still inactive.  Is there something else that I need to do?  The Mishnah links work fine.  Please tell me that all of these links SHOULD work.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 1942
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 4:26 AM

Anyone? Buuuuueller?

 

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 667
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 4:48 AM

I've just had a look at Osborne, and it doesn't seem to be linked to the Talmud at all; there are references to it, but they are not highlighted in Logos as links.

The Talmud is a recent addition to Logos, and the commentary predates there being the possibility to link to the Talmud. Logos is working on adding links to new resources to some resources, but I very much doubt if that is going to include every commentary—it is just too much work, and by the time you have finished it there will be more new resources.

You can still look up the references manually. However, I find you have to be a little careful, as the reference you enter in the box at the top of the resource pane has to be exactly right to work. I find it easiest to start with the Talmud table of contents, where I have the full name of each tractate. Click on a tractate name and then chapter 1 of that tractate. That gives me the correct abbreviation in the reference box, and I can then enter the folio number.

Hope this helps.

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 5:57 AM

We could fix this if we had manual linking.  Support?

Posts 9967
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 6:39 AM

Joseph ... this isn't a good answer, but I have a decent library and there's really not many (of mine) that link to the Talmud (outside the Mishnah).

 I've really had to just memorize the abbreviations (which for a lot of my recent hardcopy judaic purchases, I have to anyway).


Posts 1942
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 8:20 AM

Goodness, this is really a problem.  I thought that they had a way of somehow updating links when one purchased the resources.  I took the following paragraph from the Talmud description wrong I guess:

"Adding the Talmuds to Logos Bible Software will provide the opportunity to link more references than almost any other set of books we haven’t yet produced. To pick one example, in the books that Logos Bible Software has already digitized, there are more than 6,500 references to the tractate Berakhot, which is just one of the 49 tractates included in the Talmuds! With Logos Bible Software, these volumes are easily searchable, Scripture passages appear on mouse-over, and all cross-references are linked to the other resources in your library."

This was the biggest selling point for me, because I thought that I wouldn't have to open another resource separately (especially a resource this large) in order to follow the references.

I know that L4 is different, but didn't they use to have updates for L3 that would update keylinks in resources?

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 9967
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 9:06 AM

Although I 'normally' am a little critical of mother Logos, in this instance, I'm more patient. I'd assume that deep in the triangular building in northern Washington, there is a list of resources that Logos has NOT introduced, but that resources often link to (I'm just guessing since that's what I would do). Then for each new resource, I'd tell the coders to use the associated standard reference code (even though the linked-to resource is far in the future).

Now in this scenario, I'd have definitely included the Mishnah in my 'future link-to' list. The Talmuds? Not sure; it'd depend on my strategic 'vision' (obviously the Samaritan Pentateuch is not in this vision).

If I worked in the triangular building, when I released the Talmud, would I go back and re-do all the resources? Probably not, since the download to users would be atrocious. I'd probably include the updated reference links along with other corrections for later release.

Now, I'll admit, I'm giving mother Logos the benefit of the doubt. In fact, the references might actually BE in the older resources; they just don't work.

But your quote of the resource copy underscores what I HAVE been negative about for a long time, and that is that the copy writers don't appear to be familiar with the resource they're writing about. Often they over-state. But even MORE often they leave out key details that would really highlight the resource's value to users.


Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 9:47 AM

Joseph Turner:
With Logos Bible Software, these volumes are easily searchable, Scripture passages appear on mouse-over, and all cross-references are linked to the other resources in your library."

What this sentence is supposed to mean, is that all cross-references in the Talmuds are linked, not that all cross-references to the Talmuds are linked. What they say about the latter is only that it "will provide the opportunity to link more references than almost any other set of books we haven’t yet produced" (italics mine).

They're working on totally retagging some really big resources (AYBD, BDAG, ECF, and the UBS Handbooks for example). My guess is that once they manage to finish the worst ones, easier ones will start to be updated more speedily. Especially since by then they will have created a lot of scripts to automate much of the work. 

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Posts 667
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 2:38 PM

Some of the links can be added automatically, but there are also an awful lot of incorrect links in Logos which appear to have been added automatically. Most, but not all, of these are where just numbers are used (for example, 3:2); it is assumed that this refers to 3:2 of the book that the commentary is about rather than 3:2 of the book that has been referred to obliquely a line or two earlier.

If you would like to have the opportunity to correct incorrect links and add missing links, doing some of the work for Logos as we read, please vote for it at Uservoice:

http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1427695-allow-users-to-add-hyperlinks

Posts 1942
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 6:15 PM

I would like to hear from Logos for sure whether or not this is something that will be slowly updated or not.  I would think that major commentaries would be a candidate for keylink updating.  It just seems like the usefulness of the Talmud drops considerably when I think that I will have to go to the separate resource to look for a reference, when the link is right there in the text.  It seems like this is the heart of Logos Bible Software.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 433
Vincent Setterholm | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 6:21 PM

Yes, we plan on improving links in existing books over time.

Posts 1942
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 7:38 PM

That is great news.  Thank you so much, and thanks to everyone else for the input!

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 667
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2011 12:58 AM

Do bear in mind that references to the Talmud are usually to a folio number (b. Sanh. 1A). Each folio is a fairly large chunk of text.

Although a hyperlink will take you to roughly the right place, you are unlikely to ever get the convenience of a popup showing you exactly the part of the text that your author was referring to. To do that would require a judgement by the person marking up the text as to which bit of b. Sanh. 1A is being referred to.

Posts 32
Daryle Froese | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 8:43 PM

Thanks - I'll be looking for this.

Posts 9945
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 8:49 PM

Joseph Turner:

I just purchased the Neusner Babylonian/Jerusalem Talmud.  I also ordered the Mishnah.  Once I downloaded the resources, I went to both Osborne's and Beale's commentaries on revelation to check the linking; however, for some reason the links for the Babylonian/Jersalem Talmud in both commentaries are still inactive.  Is there something else that I need to do?  The Mishnah links work fine.  Please tell me that all of these links SHOULD work.

I would guess that since the Mishnah is an older resource (not too old though) and the Talmud is a brand new resource they simply haven't gotten around to linking to it yet.  Give it time.

EDIT:  Correction, the Mishnah is an older resource than I remembered since I had it when I was in Indiana which would place it prior to 2000 though my memory could be faulty on that since the library entry is 2004 — I've forgotten something before, but I don't remember when.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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