NIV Reverse Interlinear - Missing?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2011 2:11 AM

From the resource info page posted by KS4J, it becomes clear that the NIV Reverse Interlinear is a separate file (NIVNT.lbsrvi) than the bible itself - that's how it works with the ESV RI as well. Thus, the RI will only display if the file is present as well as the licence to it.

I personally have no base package, but the mimimal crossgrade ( http://www.logos.com/minimalcrossgrade ) , which should include the NIV '84 RI, but not the NIV itself.

It seems - as I bought the NIV 84 separately through the SESB package - that Logos does not realize in this situatiuon that there is a valid NIV 84 existing and doesn't activate the RI. My resource info page looks like this:

 

Maybe the situation of the threadstarter is similar, since the (KF) packages don't include NIV 84 (only NIV 2011) and thus the reverse interlinear is not associated to the NIV that was bought separately. Looking at my system, it seems this is a BUG and it's not restricted to Mac, but to people who have NIV 84 not from an old base package. 

Mick 

 

 

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2011 3:12 AM

I just crossposted this as a bug to the L4 for Windows folder:  http://community.logos.com/forums/t/38540.aspx  

Samuel,

Does your resource info claim to have an RI (as KS4S') or not (as mine)? Do you have the  NIVNT.lbsrvi file in your resource folder?

Mick

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2011 6:03 AM

NewbieMick:

It seems - as I bought the NIV 84 separately through the SESB package - that Logos does not realize in this situatiuon that there is a valid NIV 84 existing and doesn't activate the RI...

Maybe the situation of the threadstarter is similar, since the (KF) packages don't include NIV 84 (only NIV 2011) and thus the reverse interlinear is not associated to the NIV that was bought separately. 

I bet you are right Mick! Hopefully Logos can resolve this for these users. 

 

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Ekong, Samuel Akpan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2011 7:12 AM

NewbieMick,

This is my resource page info. Looks exactly like yours. I am in agreement with your viewpoint. I have sent out an email to Logos Mac support. I will await their response. Also, I do not have the NIVNT.lbsrvi in my resource listing on the Logos website.

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Ekong, Samuel Akpan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2011 2:38 PM

Hello everyone,

I heard back from Logos Support and here is what was indicated: "You have the KF version of the Portfolio collection.  This contains the 2011 NIV.  The reverse interlinears are not out for this version of the NIV.  Since you did not own the LE version, and that version is no longer available, you will not have the reverse interlinears for the 1984 NIV.  You can still purchase the 1984 version, however, with out the LE collection, you will not receive the reverse interlinears.  At this point you will need to wait until the reverse interlinears for the 2011 NIV become available."

After that clarity in response I was stumped because I knew I had the NIV 1984 Edition. So I poked around at all my installations with respect to Logos software and discovered that I had bought the  "Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary Expanded Edition" and the "Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible" (SESB), version 3.0 (52 Vols) once upon a time. I strongly believe one of these products included the NIV 1984 Edition without the Interlinear.

I am using this opportunity to thank all who helped out troubleshooting this issue with me and also a big "Thanks" to the excellent support person (Kathy) at logos.com.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2011 2:54 PM

Samuel,

yes, the SESB contains the NIV 1984 - this can still be seen from the NIV 84 Logos page. However I don't understand Logos' logic. In fact I just this evening wrote a mail to support regarding this and now am looking forward to hear back (didn't know they work on the weekend). 

Mick

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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Ekong, Samuel Akpan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2011 3:10 PM

It was a pleasant  surprise that I got a response today, Sunday.

I honestly do not understand the technicalities involved with being able, if I want, to purchase the NIV 1984 Edition as a stand alone product yet without the RI. My simple reasoning is this: If the RI exists for the NIV 1984 LE collection surely it can't be that difficult to make it available for the standalone NIV 1984 Edition. But then again I confess that I do not understand these things.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2011 3:25 PM

The questions I would want answered are:

1) Is the RI feature part of the base package or the resource itself? 

2) Did you own a base package previously that should have had the RI?

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Ekong, Samuel Akpan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2011 3:42 PM

No, I did not own a previous base package that should have included the RI.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2011 3:49 PM

Alabama,

the point is that the RI is existing and (at least in my reading of the Minimal Crossgrade page) part of the Logos functionality that has been paid for.

If the pre-/post-KF argument was true, since there is no NIV 2011 RI at the moment, those users that want or need to work with NIV have no ability at all to get a RI - despite the fact that it is existing and part of the functionality for the majority of users.   

Mick

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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Ekong, Samuel Akpan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2011 4:27 PM

NewbieMick,

You raise a good point. Hopefully we will get an answer from logos. I believe they read the forums sometimes? Smile.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 26 2011 2:05 AM

Ekong, Samuel Akpan:

NewbieMick,

You raise a good point. Hopefully we will get an answer from logos. I believe they read the forums sometimes? Smile.

To get a definitive reply from Logos it would be best to ring customer services.

If you are not in the US then Skype provides an inexpensive way to call them - it is the method I use from here in the UK.

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Ekong, Samuel Akpan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 26 2011 9:15 AM

Mike,

Thanks. Will do.

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Tonya J Ross | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 26 2011 3:44 PM

I realize this issue is a bit complex, so let me see if I can clarify it a bit.

  •  Buying the NIV(1984) as a standalone or in a bundle does not include the license for the reverse interlinear.  
  • The license for the reverse interlinear for the NIV(1984) was only included in base packages which included that Bible up to the LE versions.  
  • Beginning with the KF base packages (including the minimal crossgrade,) the reverse interlinear  license included for the NIV is for the 2011 version and not the 1984 version (they are separate licenses.)

We no longer have the rights to distribute the reverse interlinear for the NIV(1984) as mandated by the publisher.  The conclusion being, if you do not own a base package LE or earlier which contains the NIV, you will not have access to the NIV(1984) reverse interlinear.

If anyone has further questions about their specific packages/licenses please feel free to contact Customer Support for further assistance either by telephone during their office hours Monday to Friday, 6am to 5pm Pacific Time Zone, 1-800-875-6467 or by email: customerservice@logos.com 

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 26 2011 4:44 PM

Since the publisher (Zondervan) owns the rights to the NIV Reverse Interlinear, I would suggest contacting them to see if they would give Logos permission to sell it again.  It's probably a long shot, but what have you got to lose.  When Lockman published the NASB 1995, they no longer sold the NASB 1977.  I, along with others, contacted the publisher and they released it again.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 27 2011 1:49 AM

Tonya J Ross:
  • Beginning with the KF base packages (including the minimal crossgrade,) the reverse interlinear  license included for the NIV is for the 2011 version and not the 1984 version (they are separate licenses.)
  • We no longer have the rights to distribute the reverse interlinear for the NIV(1984) as mandated by the publisher.  The conclusion being, if you do not own a base package LE or earlier which contains the NIV, you will not have access to the NIV(1984) reverse interlinear.

    Tonya,

    thanks for clarifying that. I understand that Logos can't provide resources to customers if you don't have the licence from the publisher to do so. As I read from Bob's posting elsewhere in the forum that you are in licence negotiations with Zondervan anyway, I think it might be a good idea to ask whether they would allow Logos to either give or sell the RI to customers of NIV 1984. Assuming the NIV 2011 interlinear is some way down the road, Zondervan right now forces users who wish to do their bible study with the NIV to use a competitor product such as ESV - that's what I do.

    Moreover, in my opinion the http://www.logos.com/minimalcrossgrade page describes the LE and not the KF situation and the footnotes regarding the NIV RI need to be updated as they are in the base package comparison.  

    I personally am fine with having a licence for the NIV 2011 RI and waiting for it to be finalized - I hope that when this time comes, I'll have a NIV 2011 in my library (looking forward to SESB bundle upgrade).

    Mick

     

    Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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    Tonya J Ross | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 27 2011 11:11 AM

    NewbieMick:
    Moreover, in my opinion the http://www.logos.com/minimalcrossgrade page describes the LE and not the KF situation and the footnotes regarding the NIV RI need to be updated as they are in the base package comparison.  

    I have sent in a request to have that page updated.  Thank you.

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    NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 16 2011 2:42 AM

    Tonya J Ross:

    NewbieMick:
    Moreover, in my opinion the http://www.logos.com/minimalcrossgrade page describes the LE and not the KF situation and the footnotes regarding the NIV RI need to be updated as they are in the base package comparison.  

    I have sent in a request to have that page updated.  Thank you.

    Thanks, the page now (since Nov 15, I think) is consistent with the KF situation you explained.

    Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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    Nelson R. Pardee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 23 2012 11:19 PM

    Zondervan, in their infinite wisdom, "forced" me to use their competitor! What brilliant marketing is that?

    Note to Logos: I've had the NIV reverse interlinear for some time now, and didn't know it! It would have been helpful to have that hghlighted somehow. (Yeah, I know if I read the bazillion updated resources I would have seen it. But I don't, and I didn't. This is the sort of thing that maybe could have been treated a little differently)

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    Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 24 2012 12:23 AM

    Nelson R. Pardee:
    (Yeah, I know if I read the bazillion updated resources I would have seen it. But I don't, and I didn't. This is the sort of thing that maybe could have been treated a little differently)

    Wonder about suggestion(s) for improving Logos communication and demonstrating Logos 4 capabilities ?

    After looking at various web pages, now have a suggestion for Logos to create a Logos 4 Mac Reverse Interlinear video.  Another suggestion would be a Mac and PC user interface differences video, which could reflect wiki => Mac and PC User Interface Differences  The Logos Mac and PC video pages could reference each other since Logos 4 has a common experience on Mac and PC.

    - - - - - - -

    Looking at Mac app page => http://www.logos.com/mac noticed introductory video quickly shows reverse interlinear pane.

    Noticed Logos 4 Mac videos page => http://www.logos.com/videos/mac does not have a Reverse Interlinear video while Logos 4 PC videos page does have one => http://www.logos.com/videos/pc 

    Blog has an article on 27 Feb 2012 => http://blog.logos.com/2012/02/new-testament-reverse-interlinear-available-for-the-niv-2011/

    Blog has an article on 18 Apr 2011 => http://blog.logos.com/2011/04/logos_4_configure_the_reverse_interlinear_pane/ that is linked from Reading List "Logos blog and forum tips" in section 8.5 Reverse Interlinears

    Wiki Getting Started with Logos has => Learning Logos with video tutorial link => Logos Tutorial Video #5 – Reverse Interlinears

    Thankful that most features in Logos 4 PC work in Logos 4 Mac; looking forward to => Feature Parity improvements.

    Keep Smiling Smile

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