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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 2:51 PM

Jonathan Burke:

Graham Criddle:
EDIT: Looking at my Logos4 index files it looks as though the total index size of my library is about 5MB. This is on a library much smaller than many. So an index of a full library could be a problem for some mobile devices.

My entire data folder is 27GB, but my index is only 6GB. That would fit very easily on my device's microSD card.

Graham has a very small LibrarySmile - I thought mine was small as the total index is 2 GB

Some tablets have 5 GB maximum storage and no way to expand.

Jonathan Burke:
It could be the entire library if the desktop is doing the indexing. If the resources in the index haven't all been downloaded to the device, that wouldn't matter. The mobile version of Logos 4 could simply inform the user 'This resource has not been transferred to your device', or else check the mobile device's Logos 4 data folder after searching the index, and only display hits for those resources which are on the device.

This is not a solution that can be realistically applied to mobile devices with limitations on fast memory, CPU and microSD storage when compared to Logos' servers.

 

Dave
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JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 3:26 PM

Bob has elsewhere stated that the design concept for Logos 4 is that "it just works", or something very like that.

The Apple iOS app, and the Android one too, is a subset of the main application, with a strong focus on reading, and leaving most of the "heavy lifting" such as Search as on online function that calls out to the Logos Servers.

In general, I think its a good design, but people like me always want more. More features, more controls, more personal options on how it works.

In my case, I have a 64 GB iPad, so am happy for the Logos app to use as much memory and CPU power it needs. I would gladly hand over 5 or 10 GB for indexes and offline ability, in return for reduced network traffic and more complex offline usage.

I'd love to see a model where I could use my PC to tag files in different ways to permit all kinds of options. It could then localy generate some local index file(s) for transfer to my iPad (or Android) device(s). Such files could include only those I select. A search could offer the options of search the current (maybe unindexed) open resource, search my local index, or online to Logos Cloud. My choice, my storage, my traffic bill with my ISP / Carrier.

Bob has made the point that each new option adds to development and support costs, and I'm sure thats right. However, we are reading of people leaving Logos because features are seen to be better in completing products. This may or may not be true. It also might not be worth adding $500,000 to yearly development and support costs to keep $100,000 worth of customers. But as the customer, I just want more features and controls. Simple.

By all means, let the basic "out of box" defaults "just work", but I'd love to see where those that wish can enable the advanced menu settings, and tweak additional aspects to suit their personal needs and that of the location they are in. 

I have other devices that have Menu Setttings that permit "Basic" or "Advanced" modes. In Basic, it just works and maybe it suits most users. The Advanced only gets enabled if you turn it on, and you really need to check the manual and know why you want to change some of those settings. However, it makes the device the one to buy, rather than the alternatives which simply can't do the desired functions.

Offen the main diff between some software product and the Premium version, is the extra controls for advanced features. Almost without exception I go for the top models and pay the extra. 

 

 

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 3:29 PM

Been poking around, but still cannot find the index file. Can someone map the path for Windows 7 please?

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 4:09 PM

Lynden Williams:

Been poking around, but still cannot find the index file. Can someone map the path for Windows 7 please?

C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Logos4\Data\RandomLogosId\LibraryIndex

You need to enable Hidden files and Folders in Control Panel >> Folder Options.

Dave
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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 4:14 PM

Thanks, I got it.

If I'm not mistaken, mine is 4GB. 

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

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Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 4:30 PM

Dave Hooton:
Some tablets have 5 GB maximum storage and no way to expand.

True, but that shouldn't stop the rest of us making the best use of our mobile devices.

Dave Hooton:
This is not a solution that can be realistically applied to mobile devices with limitations on fast memory, CPU and microSD storage when compared to Logos' servers.

Why not? What's stopping a mobile device searching a pre-built index? The fact is that the power of Logos' servers is completely wasted when you add the massive latency of a 3G or wifi connection. I have two other Bible programs on my PDA which can open a Bible and return results for multiple term searches in a fraction of the time that it takes to run a search in the Logos Android app. Adding to that the convenience of offline searching, and the ability to transfer resources directly to my PDA from my desktop or download them, and there's simply no reason to use Logos Android.

The two massive advantages of Logos 4 are the index and the vast array of professional resources. Those significant differentiating features are both completely lost when offloading the search to a remote device via a wireless communication protocol, and only giving users the option to transfer resources to the device by downloading them individually. This defeats completely the purpose of using Logos in the first place. Imagine if you had to live with that kind of remote access on your desktop.

When I was using one of the early iterations of Logos Android, I took a couple of days to painstakingly download 2GB of resources to my device, adding them individually. The next time Logos Android was updated, it wiped out my library completely, so although the resources were still on my device, Logos couldn't see them. So I spent an entire week agonizingly downloading 4GB of resources to my library, each one individually. The next time Logos Android was updated, it wiped out my library completely yet again, so once more Logos couldn't see the resources on my device. It was at this point that I gave up downloading resources to my device. There is simply no point in doing so until I can trust that they will stay visible the next time the program is updated. This would change if bulk selection of downloads was an option.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 4:37 PM

Lynden Williams:
If I'm not mistaken, mine is 4GB.

It would be just over 4GB...

It looks like Logos 4 is indexing as you have some build and supplemental files. If it isn't currently indexing then you need to rebuild it!

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 5:13 PM

Jonathan Burke:
I have two other Bible programs on my PDA which can open a Bible and return results for multiple term searches in a fraction of the time that it takes to run a search in the Logos Android app.

This is a much simpler type of search than we have been discussing but I'm similarly impressed with the speed that is possible. I understand that Logos is planning a similar offline Search but I wouldn't know how complex, and I suspect that index data would be loaded with each resource.

Jonathan Burke:
When I was using one of the early iterations of Logos Android, I took a couple of days to painstakingly download 2GB of resources to my device, adding them individually. The next time Logos Android was updated, it wiped out my library completely...

I haven't experienced this problem with the 3 non-beta versions I have used, and a bulk download feature would be welcomed by many users.

Dave
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 10:42 PM

Dave Hooton:
Graham has a very small LibrarySmile - I thought mine was small as the total index is 2 GB

I think I got my factors wrong!

Sorry about this

Graham

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 10:46 PM

Dave Hooton:
This is a much simpler type of search than we have been discussing but I'm similarly impressed with the speed that is possible. I understand that Logos is planning a similar offline Search but I wouldn't know how complex, and I suspect that index data would be loaded with each resource.

An offline search capability is currently available in the iOS app.

As far as I can make out there are no extra indices downloaded and the search is just run against the resource(s). I have just done a test and the search for a word in a downloaded Bible when offline is slightly slower than the same search when connected to the Internet over a relatively weak Wi-Fi connection. 

Whether there are plans to enhance this I don't know.

BWS or PG functionality is not present on the iOS app when offline.

Graham

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 10 2012 10:48 PM

Dave Hooton:
I understand that Logos is planning a similar offline Search but I wouldn't know how complex, and I suspect that index data would be loaded with each resource.

Something like that has to happen, because otherwise I have no reason to use Logos Android; I won't use it if it's slower than alternative programs, and I won't use it if I have to download each resource by selecting them one by one. Loading journals is completely out of the question at present, yet they're precisely the kind of reading material I want on my device.

Dave Hooton:
I haven't experienced this problem with the 3 non-beta versions I have used, and a bulk download feature would be welcomed by many users.

It was a known recurring problem with the beta versions, and I'm really hoping that it's not a recurring problem with the current release, but a week of downloading resources one by one is not the best way to find out.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 11 2012 3:18 AM

Graham Criddle:

An offline search capability is currently available in the iOS app.

As far as I can make out there are no extra indices downloaded and the search is just run against the resource(s). I have just done a test and the search for a word in a downloaded Bible when offline is slightly slower than the same search when connected to the Internet over a relatively weak Wi-Fi connection. 

Not what we wanted to hear, but does that mean the offline search is slow, or just not as fast as the online search?

Dave
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 11 2012 3:33 AM

Dave Hooton:
Not what we wanted to hear, but does that mean the offline search is slow, or just not as fast as the online search?

Hi Dave

I've just done some tests doing an offline Bible search in the NRSV.

  • Searches for single words take between 2 and 7 seconds
  • Searches for word1 AND word2 take about 15 seconds
  • Searches for word1 NEAR word2 don't return any results (which surprised me and we need a comment from Logos on)

Not exhaustive but hopefully provides some indications

Graham

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 11 2012 7:27 AM

Graham Criddle:
Not exhaustive but hopefully provides some indications

Thanks, Graham

Dave
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Windows & Android

Posts 2
Valerie Green | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 13 2012 7:59 PM

There is no down load button available.  It just stays the version of the Bible and title. The only versions downloadable are two KJV and  American Standard Version

Posts 2
Valerie Green | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 13 2012 8:22 PM

Only two versions of the Bible are downloadable.

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 13 2012 9:31 PM

Valerie Green:

Only two versions of the Bible are downloadable.

Valerie,

Tell us a bit more about your device, what app (Logos or Vyrso) you use and what base Library you own in Logos 4.

Did you download the app from Android Market?

Dave
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Windows & Android

Posts 8
Brian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 10:56 AM

I'd like to throw my hat in the ring for a bulk download option for the entire library.

I use a DROID Razr and the area around the church I pastor has pathetic reception, and we have not introduced WiFi to the building yet.

I've installed a 32gb card, and so I have ample space for it... and really would love to have it available offline... I just don't have the time to sit around and download each file one at a time.  I understand the problem about the indexing computer power... but I respond with, why is it that competing apps, in some cases that are free, operate so much faster?

Posts 8
Patrick Lavey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 5:32 PM

I see a bunch of replies, but not one addressed Brian's original question:

Does the Android app version of Logos/Verbum have functionality to download your entire Library with one click instead of only one book/resource at a time?

Not interested in off-topic discussions about indexing. Does the functionality exist or not? It does on the iPad version of the app.

Thank you very much.

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Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 5:42 PM

Patrick Lavey:
Does the Android app version of Logos/Verbum have functionality to download your entire Library with one click

No, but if you filter the library and the resulting list is smaller than 100 resources a Download All button will appear.  This will only download those resources in the filtered list.

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